House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 26 April 1604 (2nd scribe)

Jovis, 26 Die Aprilis, 1604

Duke of Somersett's Estate.

THE Bill for the Establishment of certain Manors, Lands, and Tenements, belonging to the late Duke of Somerset; - The first Reading.

Rodney's Estate.

The Bill for the quiet Establishing and Settling of the Lands and Possessions, late of Sir Geo. Rodney Knight, deceased : - The second Reading, and committed - Sir John Thynne, Mr. Hext, Sir Fr. Hastings, Sir Robert Phillips, Mr. D. James, Mr. Hoskins, Mr. Serjeant Snig, Mr. Kirton, . . Alexander Tuck: - To-morrow in the Temple Hall.

Committees added, &c.

Mr. Hackwell. - In the Bill for Remedy of Plaintiffs, where Defendants are set at Liberty, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Hadds, Mr. Winch, Mr. Mutton, Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Erby, Mr. Oxborough, Mr. Ravenscroft, Mr. Diggs, Mr. Chock, Mr. Jones, to be added : This Afternoon, in Lincolnes Inn Hall.

Marriages.

The Bill to restrain all Persons from Marriage, until their former Wives, and former Husbands, be dead, twice read, and committed to Sir Christofer Parkins, Sir Rob. Wroth, Mr. Johnson, Sir John Townsend, Sir Edw. Hobby, Sir Geo. Moore, Mr. Lawrence Hyde, Mr. Wyseman, Mr. Fra. Moore, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Hadds, Mr. D. James, Sir Rob. Nappier, D. Dun, Mr. Nath. Bacon : - To-morrow, Temple Hall.

Outlaws, &c. not to be in Parliament.

The Bill for Disabling of Recusants, Persons attainted of Perjury and Forgery, Outlaws, and Contemners of the Laws, to be of the Parliament, secondly read, and committed - Sir Geo. Carewe, Sir Geo. Moore, Mr. Hedley, Mr. Eure, Sir Rob. Wroth, Sir Edw. Tyrrell, Mr. Bromley, Sir Maurice Barkley, Sir John Rodney, Sir Tho. Freak, Sir Rob. Nappier, Mr. Crewe, Sir Herbert Crofts, Sir Rob. Needham, Sir Wm. Selby, Mr. Hoskins, Mr. Yelverton, Sir Henry Beamount: - Monday, Middle Temple Hall.

Assert Lands.

For Assert Lands, the Counsel on Monday to be heard.

Purveyors, &c.

The Petition, touching the Abuses of Purveyors, &c. secondly read : To be ingrossed.

Post-horses, Removes in the Marches of Wales, and other Things to be added. Sir Edm. Ludlowe, Mr. James, Sir Rob. Wingfield. -

Ditto.

A Letter to the Mayor of Bristoll, from the Officers of the Green-cloth, touching opposing some Impositions of Purveyors, dated 20 Febr. 1603. delivered in by Mr. James of Bristowe, read to the House. -

Ditto.

A present Meeting, for Addition to the Petitions, in the Committee Chamber. Every Grievance to be set down. -

Persons sent for, &c.

Mr. Browne to be sent for To-morrow. Mr. James to bring in his Witnesses To-morrow Morning, into the House for the Words spoken.

Homage.

The Bill for the due Receiving of Homage and Fealty, by the Great Chamberlain of England, for and on the Behalf of the King's Majesty : - The second Reading, and committed - Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Wm. Stroud, Serjeant Tanfield, Sir Fr. Bacon, Sir Tho. Beamount, Serjeant Hubbard, Mr. Attorney of the Wards, Sir John Hollice, Sir John Heigham, Sir Jerome Horsey, Mr. Fanshawe, Mr. Wyseman, Sir John Harper, Mr. Edw. Francis, Mr. Michael Hicks, Mr. Yelverton, Sir Arthure Atye, Sir Hen. Nevill, Mr. Fra. Moore, Sir Hugh Beeston, Sir Jo. Thynne, Mr. Hare, Sir Maurice Berkley, Sir Tho. Denton: - Tuesday, in the Exchequer.

Shooting.

Bill against Shooting in Guns, and Committees, delivered to Sir Rob. Phillips.

Union with Scotland.

Union. -

Sir Edw. Hobby moveth, touching the Conference.

Sir Edwyn Sandys added, answering some Objections. -

What is out of Doubt: What the Points: How decided.

His Majesty, and we, have the same Desire : His Majesty's Honour advanced; our Rights not prejudiced. -

Limitation of our Rights in the Alteration for -

To persist in that, which is right. -

Sovereignty in his Majesty alone: Sovereignty of making Laws, in the King, and the Commons. -

Three Objections omitted by the Reporter; One, of itself, strong enough. The 13th Objection, the main Objection. - Precedents of former Times, and concurrent Examples of this Time. -

Uniting, Three Sorts: 1. By Marriage: By Election ; in elective States, upon one Name: By Conquest. -

Never any uniting in a Third Name, in the Two first: Never any Precedent of this Proposition. -

Belgia, an ancient Name : - Never could attain it. -

Norway, Denmark, Sweden: - Never consent that these Kingdoms should be united in One Name. -

It was not lawful to set any Order, to give any Office, to bestow any Office, in another Kingdom. Removing from one to another, his Officers lost their Authority. -

The King of Spaine exempled. - Duke of Parma, and Placentia: Where he is, he begins. -

Duke of Hetruria superinduced a new Name, but it was a Conquest. - Duke of Florence. - The Pope's Answer, that, if he gave the King the Name of the King of Hetruria he should give him the Kingdom; where he - he should be King in Hetruria, not of Hetruria. -

From a greater Part to assume a Denomination of the whole, an usual Thing. - No Precedent in England. -

No Precedent, to be examined by Reason. Reasons the Grounds of Law, and so of the Law of Nations, by which this judged. -

2. A Title to a Kingdom, by them, who have Interest, cannot be given, without giving of the Kingdom. -

The Kingdom of England dissolved. -

The King of Brittaine doth result upon England, and Scotland; and therefore it cannot be, without an Extinction. -

Not like Audley and Suffolk. -

We can give no Laws to Brittaine, because we are but Parcel: Scotland cannot: Together we cannot; several Corporations. - Our Parliament dissolved.- -

The Title confirmed to King H. VIII. for ever, by Act of Parliament, and his Successors. -

We have recognized the King, this Parliament, to be King of England: Impossible to alter it this Parliament. -

Not King of Brittaine, in Reference to foreign States, if not King of Brittaine at home ; for Foreigners measure him, as he is at home. -

England and Scotland, Words of Nugation : . . doth not serve for the Division of them from Brittaine. -

3. Proviso. -

Ridiculous, that we should do a Thing, and say, we did not intend it: -

Who shall interpret ? -

The King of Great Brittaine shall interpret our own Acts. -

Grants, for the King, largely taken, not strictly. -

We do not sit, upon Hopes of personal Goodness, but to make real Provision, -

Omitted by the Reporter. -

If Princes had as much Wisdom and Goodness, as God, we should need no Tie. But the Tie is reciprocal: Exempled by David, who made a Covenant with the People.

The Image of God, not in Person, but in Jurisdiction. -

Oath at the Coronation, the King's Tie; his, to maintain Liberties: The Oath of Allegiance, our Tie; to serve the King, to maintain all Rights annexed. He may have another Oath of us exacted, we have no Warrant of him: Conqueror may be expelled, where there is not such an Oath; unless a yielding. -

League. - Leagues made in the Name of England, some, so long as the Lamp shall stand upon the Altar. -

Precedence. - The King by Brittaine, shall have the latest Place. - Antiquity, not Greatness. -

Quod in communi curatur, ab omnibus negligitur. - Every several Argument to be assigned to a several Person. -

That we come with great Strength of Care and Judgment, with none of Passion. -

Kingdom is a Thing indivisible; and therefore Brittaine once named, " viz" is Nugation, and repugnant to the first.

Mr. Hedley: - Objections : If we should assent first, and Scotland disassent. Dishonour to England. -

We make that Treason, by this Act, which before was no Offence. By saying, before Notice, that he is not King of Brittaine; or, if a Man say, he is King of England; Treason. -

To enact here, for the Union of the Title, not in our Power, for Scotland: Exempled by Spayne. -

No Exception in a Confirmation. Suppose he should assume it, and afterwards by Parliament. -

The King cannot preserve the fundamental Laws, by Uniting, no more than a Goldsmith, Two Crowns. -

The bare Alteration of a Name taketh not away, but an Union doth : Exempled by divers Cases. -

Alter all Laws, Customs, Privileges, by Uniting.

Moved, that first this House, then the other House, set down in Writing ; that there may be no Disadvantage.

Sir Fr. Bacon : - Three Qualities of Objections to be avoided: 1. Too light, too mean. - Quis in rebus tam arduis vilia et levia miscet ? -

2. Too subtle. - Rerum pondera verborum frangit argutiis. -

3. Too high, more than the Exigents of the Cause. - Tentare arcana imperii. - Not to he strained. Cicero pro Milone.

Some selected Persons, upon whom the Burden may rest. -

Lawyers to fortify that they have said.

Mr. Martin: - Not to omit any Objection pertinent -

Brittaine, Result of both : By what Laws shall this Brittaine be governed ? - . ,

If the King should die without Issue, the Law of Nations giveth it to the Heir of the Father's Side; which is a Scottish Man. -

So adopt a younger Brother, that he coosen not the elder. Marry not a poor Wife, to be a Master.

When the Lords do sit, to give them Notice of their Purpose for a Conference. -

Lawyers, for Objections of Laws : State Government, by those, that made them : Inconvenience in Reason, by such others. - To collect ....

This Afternoon the Committees, for Union, to be warned to be present, by the Serjeant.

Sir H. Mountague: - An Act of Parliament....