House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 11 September 1646

DIE Veneris, 11 Septembris.

PRAYERS, by Doctor Burges.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker.

Message to the H. C. with an Order to prolong the E. of Cleveland's Leave.

Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath (fn. 1) were sent to the House of Commons, to desire their Concurrence in this Order; (videlicet,)

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Earl of Cleeveland shall have his Liberty for Two Months longer, upon the same Bail whereupon he was formerly enlarged."

Turgis pardoned, for speaking against the Parliament by Compulsion.

Francis Turgis being called in; who, being at the Bar, was told, "That the Lords have considered of his Petition, and his Sorrow, and the Cause of the Enforcement laid upon him; and that they do pass by his Offence therein, and wish that he will take Care not to do the like hereafter."

Lady Rivers' Grandchild, a Pass.

A Pass was granted for the Lady Rivers' Grandchild, up to London.

Ly Montague & al. a Pass to France.

A Pass was granted to the Lady Mountague and Eight Persons, to go into France, and return.

Colonel Payne's Petition, to have his Accompts audited and his Arrears paid.

The Petition of Colonel George Payne, was read; shewing, "That he hath spent near Four Years in the Service of the State, whereby he hath sustained great Damages; and hath contributed to the Public Service a considerable Sum, which, together with his Arrears, doth amount to above Fifteen Hundred Pounds: He humbly prayeth, that some Course may be taken for his Arrears to be paid him; and that, till he can get his Accompts audited, he may be protected by this Honourable House."

To be protected.

Ordered, That he shall have the Protection of this House, until his Arrears be paid; but that he shall pay his Debts as his Arrears shall be paid him.

Mrs. Leachland's Petitions to be protected against her late Husband's Creditors till she receives his Arrears due for attending on the King's Children.

The Petition of Mary Leechland, was read; shewing, "That, in November, 1645, upon the Petition of the Servants that attended the King's Children, and in Consideration that there was due unto them Ten Thousand Pounds for Provisions and Wages since the Parliament undertook the Care of the Children; were pleased to grant them a Protection from all Arrests for Debts, and amongst the rest unto the Petitioner's Husband, William Leechland: That, since his Death, the Petitioner is daily threatened to be arrested; and being unable to satisfy the same until she receive the Monies due from the State,

"Humbly prayeth, that, in regard there is a Continuance of the Cause, your Honours will be pleased to grant an Order for your Petitioner's Protection."

Ordered, To be specially recommended to the Committee of Lords and Commons for His Majesty's Revenue for the Relief of the Petitioner, as shall be thought fit.

Wright's Ordinance.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Ordinance for Five Thousand Pounds for Nathan Wright was considered of by a Committee of the whole House.

And the House being resumed;

The said Ordinance was read the Third Time, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Letter and Papers from the Scots Commissioners.

A Letter from the Scotts Commissioners, directed to the Speaker, was read. (Here enter it.)

A Paper of the Scotts Commissioners, touching their Army and their Pay, was read. (Here enter it.)

A Second Paper of the Scotts Commissioners was read. (Here enter it.)

A Third Paper of the Scotts Commissioners was read. (Here enter it.)

Halford's Petition:

The Petition of John Halford was read, touching the Parsonage of Slymbridge, in Com. Gloucester, belonging to Maudline's Colledge in Oxford.

Ordinance for him to be Rector of Slymbridge.

An Ordinance, That John Halford be Rector of Slymbridge, in Com. Gloucester.

Read the First and Second Time.

After the reading of the said Ordinance (the House being not satisfied therein), nothing was done; but Directions given to be satisfied before any further Proceed should be had thereon.

and Harwood's for Haseley.

Ordinance was read, That Andrewe Harwood be Rector of Haseley, in Com. Oxon. Agreed to.

To be sent to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.

Message from the H. C. with Propositions for borrowing 200,000 l. of the City.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Harley and others:

That the House of Commons, considering the great Necessity and Urgency of raising of Money for the present Occasions for the State, sent a Committee of theirs to the City of London, to borrow Two Hundred Thousand Pounds; from whom they received Propositions, which the House of Commons have condescended unto; and did, by Command of that House, beseech their Lordships to concur with the said House therein.

The said Propositions resolved of by the Common Council of London were read the First and Second Time.

And the House took the said Propositions into speedy Consideration.

And after much Debate and Argument;

Amendment to them.

It was Resolved, upon the Question, That, in the Eleventh and Twelfth Lines, after the Word ["which"], these Words ["shall first appear"] shall be put out; and, instead thereof, these Words to be added ["of these shall be first desired by the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City of London, and agreed on by both Houses of Parliament."].

Message to the H. C. about it.

Which Propositions and Alterations were presently sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath, for their Concurrence.

Mrs. Ashburnham, a Pass.

A Pass was granted to Frances Ashburnham and her Daughter, with Four Men Servants and One Maid Servant, to Deepe, with Necessaries, and to return within a Month.

L. Chandois Petition, to be relieved from the Sequestration of his Estate.

The Petition of George Lord Chandoes, was read, in hæc verba:

"To the Right Honourable the House of Peers assembled in Parliament.

"The humble Petition of George Lord Chandoes;

"Humbly sheweth,

"That your Petitioner's Estate being under Sequestration by Ordinance of both Houses and not knowing any Way for the Freedom of it but by your Lordships Favour and the Concurrence of the House of Commons;

"He humbly prays, your Lordships will be pleased to give him Liberty to petition that House; or otherwise, in your Wisdoms, to take into Consideration your Petitioner's Relief, as in some Sort he may be able to subsist.

"And your Petitioner shall ever pray, &c.

"Chandos."

Ordered, That his Lordship is left to himself, to petition or not, as he shall think fit.

Ordinance for Re-payment of 5000l. to Nathan Wright.

"Whereas, by Ordinance of the 22th of July, 1646, Fifty Thousand Pounds was obtained, to be paid in Course, out of the Receipts of the Excise, to come in upon the several Ordinances of Parliament, unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for Ireland, or his Assigns, to be employed for the Service of that Kingdom; and whereas Nathan Wright, of London, Merchant, out of his good Affection to the Service of the Parliament, and for the better promoting of so necessary a Work, hath advanced and lent the Sum of Five Thousand Pounds, upon the Credit of the said Ordinance of the 22th of July last, for the Use and Purpose therein mentioned: Be it ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the said Nathan Wright, his Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall be satisfied and reimbursed the said Five Thousand Pounds, together with Interest, after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum, at the End of every Six Months, until the Principal become payable, out of the Receipt of the Excise aforesaid, in such Order and Course as the said Ordinance of the 22th of July first above-mentioned shall, next after other Assignments already made on those Receipts, succeed and take Place; and shall not, by any other Order or Ordinance of One or both Houses of Parliament, be debarred from being satisfied and reimbursed accordingly: And be it further Ordained, That the said Five Thousand Pounds, advanced and lent as aforesaid, be paid unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for Ireland, whose Receipt, together with the Receipt or the Receipts of the said Nathan Wright, his Executors, Administrators, or Assigns, shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge unto the Commissioners of Excise for the Time being, for Re-payment of the said Five Thousand Pounds and Interest, and every Part and Parcel thereof, in Form and Manner aforesaid."

Letter from the Scots Commissioners, with the following Papers.

"For the Right Honnorable the Speaker of the House of Peeres pro Tempore.

"Right Honnorable,

"Upon the 11th of August, wee delivered in a Paper to both Houses, declareing the Willingues of the Kingdome of Scotland to recall their Army out of this Kingdome, and surrender the Garrisons possessed by them, reasonable Sattisfaction being given for their Paines, Hazard, and Charges: And wee now desire your Lordship to communicate the Papers here inclosed to the House of Peeres; and wee remaine

Worcester House.

Your Lordships humble Servaunts,

"Loudoun. W. Argyll. Lauderdaill.

"W. Jhonston. Charles Erskine.

"Hew Kennedy. Ro. Barclay.

Papers from them, that they will accept or 400,000 l. as a Satisfaction for their Expences in this War; and concerning the Manner of their being paid it.

"1. Whereas wee delivered in to the Honnorable Houses a Paper of the 11th of August, contayning severall Particulers of high Concernment and greate Importance to the Peace and Safety of these Kingdomes, and wee have received the Votes of the House of Commons concerning that Part thereof for Sattisfaction to the Army; that the Resolution of the Honnorable Houses upon the rest of that Paper (upon which soe much depends) may not bee retarded by any Differences concerning a Sattisfaction to bee given to our Army; and to evidence our Sense of the Burthens of this Kingdome; wee are willing to accept, as the lowest Summe that can possible give any Sattisfaction, or whereunto wee can condiscend, the Summe of Fower Hundred Thousand Pounds, of which Two Hundred Thousand Pounds at least to bee paid and delivered to the Treasurers of the Army at Newcastle before their marching away, and the other Two Hundred Thousand Pounds to bee secured in such Manner, and paid at such Tymes and Places, as shall bee agreed upon, which wee hope the Houses will thinke most just and reasonable, considering that the Kingdome of England, which, at the Tyme of our Engagment in this Warre for their Assistance, was in the greatest Distresse, is now, by the Blessing of God upon the Indeavors and Forces of both Kingdomes, releeved and eased; whereas the Kingdome of Scotland, at that Tyme in Peace and Prosperity, hath bin by this Warre involved in greater Calamityes and Sufferings then either wee or our Fathers have formerly felt; and whoever will make a due Comparison cannott but knowe how much England is made better, and Scotland worse, by their Engagment in this Warre: Considering alsoe that our Army in this Kingdome have served neere Three Yeares (besides those in Scotland who served neere Two Yeares in this Kingdome); that they have for the Space of Five Moneths receaved noe Pay; and when they were paid, it was not accordinge to the Pay of other Armyes, our Foote for diverse Moneths together not haveing received above 1 Penny Halfepenny per Diem, which they were the more willing to beare, in Hopes of due Sattisfaction and Recompence in the Conclusion: And now, if they should bee soe farre frustrated of their Expectations as to bee dismissed in a farre worse Condition then when they came into this Kingdome (for they came extraordinarily well provided both for Clothes and Moneyes, to the greate Charge and Expence of that Nation), and withall to finde their native Country in a much worse Condition then they left it, they would certainly then see themselves evill-recompensed: And therefore, after the Army itselfe hath served soe faithfully, and their Country hath suffered soe extreamly for their Engagment with this Kngdome, wee cannott but conceive to send Home an unsattisfyed and discontented Army into a ruined and impoverished Country will bee farre from the Thoughts of the Honnorable Houses: But if, after wee have soe freely, plainly, and cleerly acquainted the Honnorable Houses with the least Some that can possibly give Sattisfaction, this our Offer shall not bee acceptable, wee desire that the Houses will bee pleased to appoint a Committee, to concurre with the Committee of the Parliament of Scotland, for the present adjusting of the Accompts (whereunto wee have ever bin most willing since the comeinge of our Army into this Kingdome), to the End just Sattisfaction bee made accordingly: And wee doe with all Earnestnes desire and expect that the Honnorable Houses will soe accelerate their Resolution concerninge the Sattisfaction of our Army, that they may without further Delay proceed to the Consideration of the Remainder of our Paper of the 11th of August, that, by joynt Advise, a finall End may bee put to these unnaturall Warres, all Occasions of Discord may bee wisely prevented for the future, and constant Unity and Amity preserved betweene the Kingdomes.

2 Sept. 1646.

"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"Jo. Cheislie.

"2. (fn. 2) Wee have received the Votes of the Honnorable House of Commons of the First of September, wherewith wee rest sattisfyed as to the Summe, with the greate Contentment, that our Agreement in this is unto us a Ground of Confidence that there shal bee in all other Things a happy Accord betweene the Kingdomes: Only wee are necessitated againe to represent unto this Honnorable House, that a lesse Summe then Two Hundred Thousand Pounds for the present cannot give Sattisfaction to the Army; and, beside the Reasons formerly mentioned, wee doe earnestly entreate the House to consider, that wee are lymitted by positive Instructions, not to accept of a smaller Summe; and further, the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland, upon Sight of our Paper of the 18th of August (wherein wee had intimated to the Houses that Summe might possibly give Sattisfaction to the Army), have renewed their former Instructions, with expresse Direction that wee shall upon noe Termes accept of a less Summe then Two Hundred Thousand Pounds for the present, but use our Endeavor for more, in regard of the pressinge and urgent Necessityes of the Army: This being the reall and true State of the Busines, the Interest of the Second 2 Hundred Thousand Pounds is but a small Losse; and the Honnorable Houses can afford many Wayes of Security to raise it, which is noe Wayes in our Power to doe.

"Whereas, on the other Part, the Prejudice by Delay and Expence of Tyme, in representing this to the Committee of Estates and Generall Officers with the Army, and to the Committee of Estates in Scotland, must needes bee greate; and wee, being lymitted by possitive Instructions and renewed Directions, have noe Hope to obtayne it: Wherefore it is our earnest Request to the Honnorable Houses, that they would bee pleased to agree to the advanceinge of Two Hundred Thousand Pounds before the Removall of our Army; that the Meanes may bee effectuall for the End, and the common Desires of both may not, upon soe small a Difference, runne the Hazard of beinge frustrated and disappointed.

"Concerning the Tymes of Payment, and Security to bee given for the Remainder, wee desire to have a Conferrence with such as the Honnorable Houses shall appoint, wherein wee shall use our best Indeavors to give Sattisfaction.

"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"Jo. Cheisly.

"3. Wee doe retourne this Answere to the Votes of the Honnorable House of Commons of the 2d of this Instant: That our earnest Desire to entertaine a good Understandinge betweene the Kingdomes, and to accelerate the settling of all Affaires betweene them, moved us to agree upon the totall Somme, though in Equity and Justice a farre greater Somme might have beene expected; and the same Affection and Zeale did induce us freely to expresse what was the least Proportion of that Some that might for the present give Sattisfaction to the Army, before the Removall out of this Kingdome; which, upon serious Consideration of the Reasons formerly given, will cleerly appeare to bee just and necessary; for, upon most accurat Enquiry, 200,000 l. was found to bee the least Some that could possibly give Sattisfaction for the present; whereupon Instructions were given us, with possitive and expresse Lymittation, upon noe Termes to accept of lesse, but to use our best Endeavors for a greater; and, observinge the Trust committed unto us, wee cannott recede from what wee have with very greate Freedome and Plainnes already declared: Wherefore, sith it is impossible with a smaller Some to give Sattisfaction to the Army, which is extreame necessitous for the present, and upon their disbanding may bee dispersed into severall Nations, whereby they cannott attend for further Sattisfaction; and since there are many Wayes and Meanes in the Power of the Houses for to raise that Some, whereof some were represented in Conferrence, wee cannott but expect that the Honnorable Houses, in Justice, to sattisfy an Army that has done and suffered soe much for them, out of their earnest Desire to releive the North of this Kingdome of their heavy Pressures; and, that our common Desire of removeing that Army out of this Kingdome may not bee frustrated, will effectually apply themselves to the readyest Meanes which may advance the Some desired.

"Concerning the Place for receiving of the Moneyes, wee desire it may bee considered, that, when Instructions were given us aboute that Perticuler, the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland did not call it in Question; but that the same Way would bee observed as was in the Yeare 1641: But, if our Desire to have the Moneyes delivered at Newcastle give any Ground of Jealousy or Suspicion, wee are confident, the Some beinge agreed upon, and Assurance being given for Delivery thereof, the Committee of Estates would agree to some convenient Place betwixt Newcastle and Scotland, where it may bee received; and, before the Receipt of it, to deliver upp Newcastle to such as the Parliament shall appoint; and if there bee any Doubt concerninge the Surrender of the other Garrisons, and Removall of the Army out of this Kingdome, although such has bin their Integrity as they have given noe Occasion of such Suspicion, and although there bee many more Grounds of Confidence from the Covenant and Treaty then was the last Tyme an Army from Scotland was in this Kingdome, yet, that all Scruple may bee removed, and Jealousy cured, there is nothing usuall in the like Cases amonge other Nations which shall not bee willingly granted; and though, when the Some presently desired is paid, there will still remaine in the Hands of the Kingdome greate Somes of Money due to the Kingdome of Scotland, which of itselfe might bee a sufficient Security, yet, as wee have before expressed, the Some being agreed upon, and Assurance given for Delivery thereof, and Security for Payment of the Remainder, wee make noe Doubt but whatsoever Assurance can in Reason bee demaunded will freely bee graunted by the Committee of Estates with the Army and Generall Officers, concerning their Removall out of this Kingdome, and Surrender of all the Garrisons, Barwicke and Carlile being disposed of according to the Treaty betweene the Kingdomes; all which may bee soe done as needs not to bee any Hindrance to the present providing of the Some desired, nor to any other Proceedings, since all the Particulers concerning mutuall Assurance may easily bee transacted while the Money is providinge.

4 Sept. 1646.

"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"Jo. Cheislie."

Adjourn.

Adjourn, To-morrow 10 in the Morning.