Journal, October 1713: Journal Book Q

Journal, October 1713

October 1. Present:—Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Miscellanies.

Mr. Sharp took his place at the Board.

Mr. Sharp, one of the new Commissioners named in the new commission [fo. 8, 39], mention'd in the minutes of the 18th of the last month, came and took his place at the Board.

Trade.

Letter from Mr. Carkesse about exports and imports to and from France.

Answer.

A letter from Mr. Carkesse, of the 30th of September, desiring to know whether their lordships intended Dunkirk to be included in the account of exports and imports to and from France [fo. 13], that had been desired by the letter writ to him the 29th of the same month, was read; and an answer return'd, that their lordships did desire Dunkirk to be included in that account.

Treaty of Commerce with France.

Then their lordships resum'd the consideration of the Treaty of Commerce with France [fo. 14, 16], mention'd in yesterday's minutes, and made a progress therein.

October 2. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Nevis.

Mr. Streater.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. Streater attending, and the powers of attorney from several of the sufferers of Nevis to the said Streater, being examin'd at the Board, the four following debentures were deliver'd to him, vizt., numbers 421, 493, 497, and 557.

Mr. Smith.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. John Smith attending, and the powers of attorney from several of the sufferers of Nevis, to the said Smith, being examin'd at the Board, the two following debentures were deliver'd to him, vizt., 505 and 538.

Trade.

Treaty of Commerce with France.

Letter to Sir Nathanael Lloyd for his and others’ opinion on the 7th and 8th articles of the said treaty.

Then their lordships proceeded further into the consideration of the Treaty of Commerce with France [fo. 15], and ordered that the 7th and 8th articles of the first specification annex'd to the said treaty be sent to Sir Nathanael Lloyd [fo. 22], and that he be desir'd to consider the same, with such other civilians as he shall think fit, and to let their lordships have their opinion whether the said articles are for the advantage of this kingdom; and, if so, that they would furnish their lordships with reasons to support the said articles when her Majesty's Commissaries shall meet with those to be appointed by France; and the said letter being drawn up accordingly, was approved by their lordships, and ordered to be sent.

Spanish merchants’ answer to queries relating to our trade to Spain.

Then the Lord High Treasurer, Lord President, Duke of Ormond, Lord Bolingbroke and Mr. Secretary Bromley coming to the Board, Sir William Hodges, Mr. Dolliffe, Mr. Mead, Mr. Bowles [fo. 14], with several other Spanish merchants, together with Mr. Gilligan, were call'd in, and being asked, on what foot the trade to Andaluzia stood in the time of King Charles the Second of Spain, they said:
That the duties in Andaluzia were high, but that after the King's abatement (which was 25 per cent.), and the farmer's abatement (which was uncertain and depended upon such agreement as the merchants cou'd make with the said farmers), the said duties did amount to ten per cent. ad valorem; that if they could be settled on the same foot of ten per cent., they thought it would be an advantage; and they desired for the future, not to be upon uncertainties, nor to depend upon the will of the framers; that other nations paid not above 7 or 8 per cent. in Andaluzia, upon goods of the like value, vizt. if the English import bays to the value of 100; and the French import linnen of the same value, their linnen shall not pay above 7 or 8, when our woollen pays 10 per cent.

But it being objected that this was not upon the same sort of goods, they said:
That Colchester bays paid about 11 per cent., and Dutch woollen goods and Flanders says (which were much the same as our bays) paid not above 5 per cent.; and they own'd that if an Englishman imported French goods, he paid as much and no more than the French do; and in like manner, if the French imported English goods, they paid the same as we do.

Then being ask'd the same question in relation to Valentia, Arragon and Catalonia, they said:
That those provinces had great priviledges, and paid less customs than in Andaluzia, vizt., from 7 to 10 per cent.; that at Alicant there has been lately 8 per cent. more ad valorem required upon our goods than was in King Charles the Second's time; that there has not been at Alicant any printed book of rates since King Philip's being in Spain; that with the additional duty of 8 per cent. there, and the ordinary charges, they now pay at least 20 per cent. upon their goods.
That at Valentia, which has the same priviledges as Arragon, the[y] paid from 7 to 8 per cent.
That in the Canaries, they paid formerly but 6 per cent. ad valorem, but that afterwards one per cent. more was demanded for repairing of the fortifications, so that they now pay 7 per cent.; and that they settle as well as they can with the customers the value of their goods, upon which the said duty is rais'd.
That Catalonia is much upon the same foot as Valentia; that goods carry'd by the way of Catalonia, Arragon or Valentia into the Castiles or Andaluzia, might pay at the Puerto Secos a duty equivalent to that of Andaluzia, but they believ'd that was never practis'd; for no merchant would ever send their goods to Madrid or other parts of the Castiles by those provinces, when they could do it by the way of Biscay in eight days’ time, and for a quarter part of the charge.
That the foremention'd duties in Arragon, Valentia and Catalonia, were more favourable than those of Andaluzia by 2 or 3 per cent., and were laid by the States of those provinces (more or less), as the exigencies requir'd.
That in Biscay and Guipuscoa, no duties are paid to the King, and only one duty of one per cent. to the Contraction House; the ports in Biscay and Guipuscoa being as free ports; but if our goods go out of those provinces into Castile, they then pay the Andaluzia duties.

These gentlemen being then asked what medium they could propose in order to the settling of a tariff between the duties of Andaluzia and those of Arragon, Valentia and Catalonia; they said they would consider thereof, and bring their lordships their answer in writing on Wednesday morning next [fo. 23].

October 6. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

New England.

Mr. Dummer &c. about ships seiz'd by the Spaniards at Tertuda.

Ill consequence of being prohibited loading of salt there.

Mr. Dummer, Mr. Perry and several other gentlemen attending [fo. 12, 25], Mr. Dummer's petition, mention'd in the minutes of the 25th of the last month, relating to the New England ships being seiz'd at Tertuda by the Spaniards, was again read; and these gentlemen being ask'd some questions, they said that they could prove that the English had gather'd salt on the island of Tertuda without interruption for above 45 years past, and that they doubted not but they could find some old West Indians here in England, that would be able to prove that we gather'd salt there before the year 1667, and they promis'd to bring their lordships certificates of it accordingly. They added in discourse that, if the New England men were prohibited loading of salt there, it wou'd be an unspeakable loss to them, for that then they shou'd be obliged to buy it of the Dutch for the curing of their fish; that Barbadoes in particular wou'd suffer very much by such prohibition, the people of that island getting all their salt from Tertuda; that all the islands being supply'd with fish from New England for the food of their negro's, the said fish must be sold considerable dearer, if the New England men are obliged to buy their salt of the Dutch.

New England.

Barbadoes.

Memorial from Mr. Heysham. Illegal trade between Surinam and our northern colonies.

Mr. William Heysham, agent for Barbadoes, attending, presented to their lordships a memorial complaining of a trade carry'd on for rum, sugar and molosses [fo. 104], between Surinam and our northern colonies, and setting forth the damage it will be to Barbadoes and the other sugar plantations, if that trade shou'd not be prevented; which memorial was read. Whereupon Mr. Heysham was acquainted that it would be proper to petition her Majesty thereupon.

Nevis.

Mr. Meriwether.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. Meriwether attending, and the powers of attorney from several of the sufferers of Nevis to him being examin'd at the Board, the five following debentures were deliver'd to him, vizt., numbers 499, 506, 544, 548, and 592.

Nevis.

Mr. Butler.

Debenture deliver'd.

Mr. James Butler attending, a debenture for his loss at Nevis was deliver'd to him, number 329.

St. Christopher's.

Mr. Woodrop.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. Alexander Woodrop attending, and the powers of attorney from two of the sufferers of St. Christopher's to him, being examin'd at the Board, the debentures number'd 210 and 427 were deliver'd to him.

Trade.

Letter from Sir Nathanael Lloyd on the 7th and 8th articles of the Treaty of Commerce with France.

A letter from Sir Nathanael Lloyd [fo. 16, v. infra], of yesterday's date, in answer to one writ him the 2nd instant, upon the 7th and 8th articles of the first specification annex'd to the Treaty of Commerce with France, was read; and their lordships agreed to insert the said answer in the observations they shall make upon the said Treaty of Commerce.

October 7. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Trade.

Treaty of Commerce, France.

Their lordships made a further progress in the consideration of the Treaty of Commerce with France [v. supra, fo. 40].

Merchants’ memorial about regulating the customs on British goods in Spain, and Consul of the Canaries’ representation touching what might be of advantage to the British trade there.

Then my Lord High Treasurer, Lord President, Duke of Ormond, and Mr. Secretary Bromley coming to the Board, Sir William Hodges, Mr. Dolliffe, and several other Spanish merchants were called in, who presented to their lordships a memorial containing what they conceiv'd reasonable to be insisted on in regulating the customs on British goods [fo. 20, 24], which was read. They also presented to their lordships a representation of William Pouldon, Consul at the Canaries, containing several particulars of what he conceiv'd might be of advantage to the British trade to those islands, if they cou'd be obtain'd of the King of Spain; and in discourse, these gentlemen said that British goods imported to Cadiz and paying the duties there, if they were afterwards sent to the Canaries, they did not there pay any new duty of entry.

That the goods imported into Biscay, pay besides the one per cent. to the Contractation House 2½ per cent. more, if imported by foreigners; if by natives, they only pay the foresaid one per cent.

Those gentlemen further said that what they now laid before their lordships was done this morning in such haste, that they fear'd it was not so clear as it ought to be; and therefore, if their lordships wou'd allow them till Friday next, they wou'd reconsider it, and then bring their lordships another more perfect memorial, which their lordships agreed to.

October 9. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Trade.

Treaty of Commerce with Spain.

Letter from Sir William Hodges &c. with a second memorial about regulating the customs on British goods in Spain.

Their lordships, resuming the consideration of the draught of a Treaty of Commerce between Great Britain and Spain, the memorial, presented to the Board by several Spanish merchants the 7th instant, was again read; after which Sir William Hodges attending [fo. 23], according to appointment, he was call'd in, and a letter from him to the secretary, with another memorial signed by himself and several of the said merchants on the same subject as that before mention'd, were read; whereupon a copy being order'd to be kept of the first of the said memorials, and the original return'd to Sir William, as the merchants desire, the same was done accordingly.

Letter to Mr. Secretary Bromley, inclosing the same.

Sir William Hodges being withdrawn, a letter to Mr. Secretary Bromley for transmitting to him a copy of the Spanish merchants’ memorial, presented to their lordships this day, was drawn up and signed.

October 13. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

New England.

Papers from Mr. Dummer about the Island of Tertuda.

Mr. Dummer, agent for the province of the Massachusets Bay, attending, he presented to their lordships a supplemental memorial [fo. 20], with several certificates from masters of ships, relating to the Island of Tertuda, and the English loading salt there, which were read.

Nevis.

St. Christopher's.

Mr. Duport.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. Duport attending, and his letters of attorney from three of the sufferers at Nevis and St. Christopher's, being examin'd at the Board, the two debentures number'd 41 and 132 were deliver'd to him.

Nevis.

Mr. Samuel Ball.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. Samuel Ball attending likewise, and the letters of attorney to him from several of the sufferers at Nevis, being examin'd at the Board, the four debentures number'd 228, 536, 537, and 543 were deliver'd to him.

Mr. Walker, a debenture deliver'd.

Mr. Thomas Walker likewise attending, and the letter of attorney from Joshua Hobson, one of the sufferers at Nevis, to the said Walker, being examin'd at the Board, the debenture number'd 374, in the name of the said Hobson, was deliver'd to Mr. Walker.

St. Christopher's.

Mr. Carpenter, junior.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. Nathanael Carpenter, junior, attending likewise, and his powers of attorney from two of the sufferers at St. Christopher's being examin'd at the Board, the debentures number'd 599 and 600 were deliver'd to him.

Trade.

Letter to Sir William Hodges.

Bilboa, St. Ander.

Ordered that the secretary write to Sir William Hodges [fo. 27] for another copy of the agreement between the English factory at Bilboa and the town of St. Ander, as also how the trade to Bilboa has been carry'd on, and to desire an answer thereto, as soon as possible.

October 14. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Trade.

Queries receiv'd from Mr. Secretary Bromley relating to the Treaty of Commerce with Spain.

The secretary laid before the Board the following queries he receiv'd yesterday from Mr. Secretary Bromley [fo. 27], for their lordships’ answer, to be laid this day before the Lords of the Cabinet Council, vizt.:

In the 3rd article of the Treaty of Commerce with Spain, as prepared, there is a rule prescrib'd for adjusting the book of rates therein mentioned, but no provision for the duties to be paid till such book of rates is made. Would it not, therefore, be reasonable that the same rule should be the provision in the interim? Or can anything else be offer'd for that purpose? And may not inconvenience happen in the meantime for want of some provision?
Whether the general rules in the two first articles of the said treaty will put the trade on as good a foot as it was in the time of King Charles the Second of Spain?
Where the schedules annex'd to the treaty of 1667, mention'd in the Lords Commissioners for trade their first observation on the first article of the draught of the Treaty of Commerce with Spain, are to be found?

Answer.

Whereupon the said queries being consider'd, an answer to the same was sign'd [fo. 26], and sent to the Lords of the Cabinet Council accordingly.

Trade.

Letter from Sir William Hodges.

Bilboa.

A letter from Sir William Hodges [ibid.], in answer to one writ him yesterday, relating to the trade of Bilboa, &c., was read.

October 15. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Nevis.

Mr. Butler.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. James Butler attending, and his letters of attorney from several of the sufferers at Nevis being examin'd at the Board, the eleven debentures number'd 475, 478, 484, 486, 488, 489, 553, 555, 559, 588, 591, were deliver'd to him.

Barbadoes.

Mr. Heysham, for the Board's report on an Act about Johanna Parris.

Mr. William Heysham, agent for Barbadoes, attending, and desiring their lordships would please to lay before her Majesty, as soon as may be, their opinion upon an Act passed in that island, the 1st of August, 1712, entituled—
An Act to enable and impower the surviving acting executor of Johanna Parris, widow, deceased, to sell and dispose of certain lands, buildings and negro slaves, devised by the last will and testament of the said Johanna Parris, to and for the uses and purposes herein mention'd.

Draught of a representation thereupon.

The said Act was laid before the Board, and Mr. Solicitor General's report upon it read. Whereupon the draught of a representation proposing her Majesty's royal approbation of the same, was agreed and order'd to be transcrib'd.

Jamaica.

Draught of a representation proposing a new councillor.

Their lordships also agreed the draught of a representation order'd the 25th of September to be prepar'd for offering to her Majesty that Thomas Bernard, esquire, be constituted a member of the Council of Jamaica [fo. 11, 30], in the room of Colonel Long, who is absent, and order'd the same to be transcrib'd.

October 16. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Nevis.

Mr. Tonstall.

Debentures deliver'd.

Mr. John Tonstall attending, and his letters of attorney from Mr. John Griffin and Mr. William Wignall, sufferers at Nevis, being examin'd at the Board, two debentures number'd 492 and 512 were deliver'd to him.

Barbadoes.

Representation on an Act about Johanna Parris.

A representation, proposing the confirmation of an Act passed at Barbadoes the 1st of August, 1712 [fo. 28; R. fo. 144], entituled An Act to enable and impower the surviving acting executor of Johanna Parris, widdow, deceased, to sell and dispose of certain lands, buildings and negro slaves devised by the last will and testament of the said Johanna Parris, to and for the uses and purposes herein mentioned, agreed at the last meeting, was sign'd.

Jamaica.

New councillor.

Representation.

A representation, proposing Thomas Bernard, esquire, to be a member of her Majesty's Council of Jamaica [fo. 29; R. fo. 144], in the room of Charles Long, esquire, who has been absent several years without her Majesty's leave, agreed at the last meeting, was sign'd.

Trade.

Portugal treaty reconsider'd.

Their lordships then took into consideration the letter from my Lord Bolingbroke of the 4th September, 1713 [fo. 10, 31], relating to a treaty with Portugal, and made a progress therein.

October 20. Present:—Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Trade

to Italy. Letter from Lord Bolingbroke.

A letter from the Lord Viscount Bolingbroke of the 19th October, 1713 [fo. 33, 37], for what the Board has to offer in relation to our trade to Italy, was read; whereupon ordered that the same be taken into consideration the first opportunity.

Trade

to Portugal reconsider'd.

Their lordships, considering what advantage may now be obtain'd in the settlement of our commerce with Portugal, pursuant to her Majesty's directions signify'd to the Board by the Lord Viscount Bolingbroke's letter of the 4th September, 1713 [fo. 30], mention'd in the minutes of the 16th instant, the following treatys between England and that kingdom, were read, vizt.:
Treaty of peace and alliance between Oliver Cromwell, Protector of England, and the King of Portugal, made at Westminister July the 10th, 1654.
Marriage treaty of King Charles the Second with Portugal.
Treaty between her Majesty and the King of Portugal, concluded at Lisbon the 27th December, 1703.

Draught of a treaty to be prepar'd.

Whereupon directions were given for preparing the draught of a Treaty of Commerce between Great Britain and Portugal [fo. 36].

Nevis.

St. Christopher's.

List of sufferers there, deliver'd Mr. Campbell, &c.

Mr. Campbell and Mr. Duport desiring a copy of the list of the sufferers of Nevis and St. Christopher's, for whom debentures have been sign'd by their lordships, and a copy of such a list having been prepar'd, and laid before the Board, ordered that the same be deliver'd to them.

October 22. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

New York.

Letter from the Governor

A letter from Colonel Hunter, Governor of New York, to the Board, dated the 18th July, 1713, was read; and the papers therein referr'd to laid before the Board, which are as follow, vizt.:
Papers referr'd to.
Four Acts passed at New York the 1st of July, 1713.
Journal of the Assembly of New York, from the 12th of May, 1713, to the 6th July following.
Minutes of Council, and Council in Assembly, from the 12th March, 1712–13, to the 6th of July following.

A letter from Colonel Hunter to the secretary, of the 18th July last, was also read.

Trade

to Sicily.

Merchants summon'd

A letter from the Lord Viscount Bolingbroke, of the 19th October, 1713 [fo. 30, v. infra], for what the Board may have to offer in relation to our trade to Sicily, and the several parts of Italy, was again read. Whereupon ordered that the secretary write to Mr. Richard Frome, Mr. James Porten and Mr. Andrew Hopegood, junior [fo. 34], desiring them to consult such merchants concern'd in the trade of Sicily, as they shall think fit, in order that if anything shall, upon the said consultation, be thought necessary to be added to the memorial sign'd by them, and mention'd in the minutes of the 9th of December, 1712 [P. fo. 253], it may be laid before the Board in writing on Tuesday morning next, at ten of the clock.

October 27. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Vernon.

Trade

to Sicily.

Their lordships taking again into consideration my Lord Bolingbroke's letter of the 19th instant, relating to the trade to Sicily &c. [v. supra], and Mr. Ball attending, and being ask'd several questions, he said,

Mr. Ball's answer to queries.

That it would be very much for the advantage of the trade of this kingdom, if it could be obtain'd, that we might import all sort of salt fish into Sicily, upon a moderate duty, and that we might sell it there either by wholesale or relate, as we should find it for our advantage.

That raw silk be permitted to be imported into Sicily from the kingdom of Naples, in order to be exported from Sicily to this kingdom.

That when British goods shall have once paid the duties of importation, they be permitted afterwards to be carry'd to any parts where the merchants shall think fit.

Trade.

Sicily.

Mr. Hopegood and Porten's supplemental memorial.

Then Mr. Hopegood and Mr. Porten attending, as they had been desir'd the 22nd instant [fo. 33], a memorial, in supplement to that which they had formerly deliver'd to the Board, and mention'd in the minutes of the 9th December last, was read; whereupon being ask'd several questions, they said:
Their answer to queries.
That the duties on our goods imported into Sicily were very high, which they explain'd as follows, vizt., woollen goods paid about 6 and 1/3 per cent., iron, lead and other weighty goods paid 3 per cent. ad valorem. But then the settling the value of such goods depended wholly upon the will of the farmer, so that sometimes they valued goods so high as that they have paid more customs than what they have actually sold their goods for. To remedy this inconvenience, they propos'd that it should be stipulated with the King of Sicily that, when British merchants import goods into Sicily, and they cann't agree with the farmer about the value, they may be permitted to ship those goods off again without paying any duty.
They said that the additional duty of 12s. 6d. mention'd in their memorial to be laid on sugars, was done during the late war.
They added, that at Leghorn the French Consul was permitted to appoint a person to be one of the office of Sanita there, and that it would be for our advantage if one of her Majesty's subjects was in like manner admitted to the same office.

Then these gentlemen being desir'd to give their lordships their reasons for insisting on what they desire in relation to tobacco, fish and sugar, they promis'd to do it accordingly.

October 29. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Nevis.

St. Christopher's.

Requisites to be perform'd by the sufferers there.

Letter from Mr. Lowndes.

Mr. Campbell attending, he presented to their lordships a letter from Mr. Lowndes, of 28th instant, by order of my Lord High Treasurer, desiring the Board to lay before his lordship the several requisites to be perform'd by the sufferers of Nevis and St. Christopher's [fo. 37], before they could be entituled to debentures for their losses, as also by what sort of evidence it appear'd to the Board the said requisites had been perform'd and comply'd with; which letter was read, and directions given for preparing an answer thereto.

Trade.

Treaty of Commerce with Portugal.

Their lordships then took into consideration the draught of a Treaty of Commerce with Portugal [fo. 31, 40], and made a progress therein.

October 30. Present:—Lord Guilford, Sir Philip Meadows, Mr. Monckton, Mr. Moore, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr. Sharp, Mr. Vernon.

Nevis.

St. Christopher's.

Requisites to be perform'd by the sufferers there. Letter to Lord High Treasurer.

A letter to the Lord High Treasurer, in answer to one from Mr. Lowndes, by his lordship's order, relating to the several requisites to be perform'd by the sufferers of Nevis and St. Christopher's [fo. 36], before they could be entituled to debentures for their losses, &c., mention'd in yesterday's minutes, was sign'd.

Trade

to Sicily.

Letter to Lord Viscount Bolingbroke.

A letter to the Lord Viscount Bolingbroke, in answer to his lordship's of the 19th instant [fo. 30], relating to the trade to Sicily, and several parts of Italy, was sign'd.

Montserrat.

Letter from Mr. Lowndes.

A letter from Mr. Lowndes to the secretary, of the 28th instant, inclosing, by order of the Lord High Treasurer, a representation from the Commissioners of the Customs, relating to a complaint against Captain Marshall, Lieutenant Governor of Montserrat, for having discouraged the Custom House officers in the execution of their duty in that island, in order that such direction be given by this Board as may prevent the like complaint for the future, was read.