House of Commons Journal Volume 8: 17 August 1660

Friday, 17th August, 1660.

Prayers.

Covent Garden Precinct.

A BILL for making the Precinct of Covent Garden Parochial, was this Day read the Second time; and, upon the Question, committed unto Sir Thomas Clergis, Mr. Knightley, Mr. Pryn, Sir Gilbert Gerrard, Mr. King, Mr. Goodrick, Sir Wm. Waller, Sir John Temple, Sir John Bowyer, Mr. Rainsford, Mr. Gilbert Gerrard, Sir Francis Gerrard, Sir Solomon Swale, Sir Wm. Lewis, Mr. Wingfeild, Sir Henry Williams, Mr. Hunrford, Mr. Barton, Sir George Downing, Sir Edward Rossiter, Sir Edward Jennings, Sir Lancelot Lake, Sir George Booth, Sir Wm. Wheeler, Mr. Russell, Sir Wm. Doyley, Mr. Allen, Sir John Northcot, Mr. Francis Bacon, Serjeant Glyn, Sir Edmond Bowyer, Sir Edward Hales, Lord Angier, Sir Wm. Waller, Sir Wm. Bowyer, Lord St. John, * Rich: And are to meet at Two of the Clock, To-morrow in the Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber.

Judicial Proceedings.

Serjeant Glyn reports from the Committee, the Proceedings of the said Committee upon the Amendments and Provisoes, sent down from the Lords, to the Bill for Confirmation of judicial Proceedings.

Resolved, That in the Second Line of the first Proviso, after the Word "no," and before the Word "Fine," these Words, viz. "non claim upon or after any," be added.

The additional Clause, offered Yesterday to the Third Proviso, being reported by the Committee, as fit to be inserted, was read; viz. "and that all Grants, Conveyances, Leases, Devises, Assurances, Statutes, Recognizances, and Judgments, for Debt or Damages heretofore had, made, or suffered, by any Person or his Heirs, whose Conviction, Utlagary, or Attainder, is, by this Act discharged, or made void, shall be of the same Force and Effect, as if no such Conviction, Outlagary, or Attainder had been."

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, that this Clause be added to the said Third Proviso.

The said Provisoes, so amended, together with the Amendments of Yesterday, being put to the Question, were agreed unto.

Ordered, That Serjeant Glyn do carry this Bill, and the said Provisoes, so amended, to the Lords.

Ld. St. Johns.

Ordered, That the Bill, sent from the Lords, touching the Lord St. Johns, be read the Second time on Monday Morning.

Officers in Courts of Justice.

Mr. Goodrick reports a Bill for indemnifying certain Officers in Courts of Justice: Which was this Day read the First and Second time; and, upon the Question, ordered to be ingrossed.

Loan from the City.

Ordered, That the Members of this House, that serve for the City of London, do go to the Lord Mayor and Common Council of the said City, and receive an Account of them, what they have done, concerning the Proposal made to the City, from the Parliament, for borrowing One hundred thousand Pounds upon Security of the Poll Bill.

Poll Bill.

A Message from the Lords, by Dr. Child and * *, Two Masters of the Chancery;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to bring down the Poll Bill; and to signify, that they do concur with the Desires of this House in the Amendments thereof.

Conference with Lords.

Sir Henage Finch reports, that, according to the Commands of this House, the Committee attended the Lords at a Conference Yesterday; and that the Substance of the said Conference was as followeth:

"That the Matter thereof was about the Bill of Indemnity: To shew wherein they did adhere to their former Amendments; and wherein they do agree with the Alterations made by this House.

"That the Lord Finch did manage the Conference for the House of Peers: And was pleased to tell us, in the first Place, that, in the Clause concerning Ireland, they were willing to agree with this House, with some Amendments;"-(which the Reporter did particularly open; and are specified in a Paper, then delivered, to be communicated to this House;)-" and these being agreed, it will comprehend their agreeing to some other Words in the Bill, touching his Majesty's Dominions."

"His Lordship told us, that, to that Clause, in the Ninth Skin, the first Line, which concerns several Persons that were Judges of his late Majesty, they adhered, as they formerly sent it down; that is, to the Blotting out of that Clause whereby they were reserved to future Penalties; and to the excepting of them for Life; for which he offered some Reasons: That though it be true we are now upon an Act of Indemnity and Oblivion, yet they hoped we would not make it an Act of Oblivion of our Duty to God, the King, and the Safety and Honour of the Kingdom."

"He took notice, that this Kingdom having now arrived to a Miracle of Preservation when the Pit of Destruction was open, and the Privileges thereof, in all the Parts of them, invaded; when the Murder of the King had been committed, against all the Laws of God and Man; This ought to stir up in us a Sense more than ordinary; And therefore, he thought it fit for us to consider our Duty to the King, a gracious Prince, and a Prince endeared to us by the miraculous Preservation of his Person by the Hand of Heaven; a Prince that had suffered great Afflictions, like Joseph in Egypt, lying long in Fetters; and That such as entered into his Soul, like David, when he was hunted as a Partridge in the Wilderness; and, that had received Deliverance like to that of David's and Joseph's, being both in the Thirtieth Year of their Age: And the Afflictions that befell this good King, were the Effects of the Counsels of these Men that are now in Question."

"He said, we are next to consider the Safety of the Kingdom: Their Lordships did not think it fit nor safe for this Kingdom that they should live: Here they cannot live; nor abroad with Safety; for Danger to a Kingdom is not always within Doors; Their Life may give them Opportunity of tampering to the Working of Mischief abroad. Then, for the Honour of the Kingdom; first, in point of Justice, Blood requires Blood; and he instanced in the Gibeonites, the shedding of their Blood could not be expiated but by the shedding of Blood."

"He took notice, that his Majesty's Honour was concerned in the Infamy which the shedding of that Royal Blood hath brought upon this Nation, in the Eyes of foreign Nations; and that this is the only Opportunity to take it off."

"He took notice of an Objection, from the Proclamation issued by his Majesty, on the Desire of both Houses; and, before he gave Answer to that, he observed, the wonderful Moderation the King, and House of Peers, had shewn in their Proceeding towards the Punishment of Offenders at this Time. His Lordship observed, that to petition to bring a King to Justice; to summon him to Justice; to sit upon him, when he was summoned to Justice; and to abuse the People by Suggestions that might lead them to approve this Action; made them so criminal as none could excuse them: These Proceedings were all High Treason in themselves; and yet, all these are pretermitted in the Act of Oblivion: These are those who murdered his Royal Father; those that sentenced him, and signed the Warrant: Which Moderation he made use of to shew, that they might have been more strict in this case. And, to the Objection, from the Proclamation, he said, Something sure was intended by it: But, first, the Proclamation was but negative in the Words of it; and that, which can be gathered from it, is only Implications out of a Negative. He took notice, how the Proclamation runs; first, "that because divers "Persons are fled from Justice, that they cannot be "brought to a legal Trial, therefore they are summoned "to render themselves:" Whence, it was argued, that the Meaning thereof was suitable to the Recital, "to "bring them to Justice.

"He observed, that this Proclamation calls in, among the rest, Lisle and Sey: It might have added Baxter and Scot; and yet none will say it intended to pardon Them: Therefore he gathered, there could not be supposed an absolute Intention in that Proclamation to pardon all that came in upon it: For, the very Persons instanced in, had they come in, had yet not been pardoned. He observed, that the Proclamation says, they must come in, under Pain of being excepted from Par don and Indemnity, for Life and Estate; and, that we ourselves had resolved to confiscate their Estates, notwithstanding the Rendering of themselves: And thence his Lordship argued thus: If it be just to take away their Estates, it is as just to take away their Lives: If it be not just to take away their Lives, then it is not just to take away their Estates. His Lordship said further, If these Persons, thus excepted for Life and Estate, should by us, be not excepted for Life, but subjected only to future Penalties; then the Consequence would be, that we shall adhere to the Pardon of some to Life, who are more guilty, a great deal, than some of the Persons whom we have excepted for Life; some of them having been, at all the Sittings on the King, diligent Attendants thereon, all the while; some of them designing the Place of Slaughter, before his own House. It is true, he said, the Thrones of Kings are established by Judgment and Mercy: But Mercy had been shewn already; and nothing remains now, for Support of his Throne, but Justice: And therefore his Lordship concluded this Point with Advice; "Let the Wickedness of these Men fall on their own Heads; but let the Throne of our King be established for ever."

"To the Exception of the Four Persons that follow in the Clause concerning Vane, Lambert, &c. they also adhere, that they should stand excepted for Life: His Lordship said indeed, they were not excepted as Murderers; but he took notice, that the King, of whose Wisdom none can or doth doubt, and of whose Wisdom, he knows, this House hath as great a Veneration, as any, his Majesty himself, sitting the Parliament, (who could not but take notice of it) thought fit to commit these Persons to the Tower of London * * * * intimated, by some Letters of his Majesty in Print, "if there be Persons dangerous to the Safety of the Nation;"- and as such he looked on these: But he said withal, if they were capable of Mercy, no Question but the King, the Fountain of Mercy, He would extend it to them. In the mean time, their Lordships though it fit to leave them to the Mercy of the King; and so he hoped this House will too."

"To the Exception of those other Four Persons, that sat in the several High Courts of Justice, their Lordships also adhere. He observed, it was some Moderation in the House of Peers, that they take no more than one apiece; He said, This was done among them suddenly, and at the Table, without Conference with any other Persons, or meditating a Revenge; to shew the Candour and Plainness of their Proceedings: He confessed, it was equal and just, there should be a like Explation, for the Breach made on the Privilege of the Commons; and that some Persons should be excepted on their Account: But their Lordships were as careful of the Privileges of this House, as of their own; and, having more Reason to expect it from us, than to send it to us, therefore they omitted That."

"To the Proviso, whereby the Sixteen are sent down under an Incapacity of all publick Employment, their Lordships do agree, being content to acquiesce in Their incapacitating only; and to omit the Adjourning of them to future Pains and Penalties."

The Amendments, delivered by the Lords, at the said Conference, were read; and, after, read by Parts.

The First Amendment was read; being as followeth; viz. This House doth agree with the House of Commons, in the Proviso concerning Ireland, with these Amendments; viz.

7 Skin, 30th Line, after the Words "passed in," and before the Word "the," put in these Words, "Parliament begun at Westminster, the Third Day of November, in:" Which, upon the Question, was agreed unto.

The Second Amendment; viz. 33 Line, after the Word "same," and before the Word "nor," put in these Words, "other than such as by another Act, intended hereafter to be passed, shall be therein named, mentioned, or expressed to be pardoned," was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The Third Amendment; viz. 35 Line, after the Word "Ireland," and before the Word "any," put in these Words, "and their Heirs, and such other Person and Persons, as in and by an Act, intended to be hereafter passed, shall be therein named, mentioned, or expressed, in that Behalf," was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The Fourth Amendment; viz. same Line, after the Word "Estate," and before the Word "in," in the Interlineation, put in these Words, "Liberties, Franchises, or Hereditaments," was read; and, on the Question, agreed unto.

The next Amendment; viz. 9 Skin, 1st Line, resolved, the Lords do adhere to the Names of the Persons who were the King's Judges, &c. and as they formerly sent them down:

The Amendment, 9th Skin, 1st Line, as it was at First sent down from the Lords, was also read:

Ordered, That it be referred to a Committee, to state the Matter of Fact, upon the present Debate, about this Amendment; and report it to this House To-morrow Morning; viz. Mr. Elliston, Sir Solomon Swale, Sir Edward Turner, Sir Geo. Booth, Mr. Hollis, Mr. Allen, Mr. Pryn, Col. King, Serjeant Glyn, Serjeant Hales, Sir Wm. Wild, Sir * Rich, Mr. Knightley, Mr. Swinfin, Sir Henage Finch, Mr. Annesley, Sir Richard Temple, Sir John Bowyer, Sir Gilbert Gerrard, Mr. Shapcot, Sir Lancelot Lake, Sir Wm. Waller, Mr. Charlton, Sir Allen Broadrick, Mr. Brereton, Sir John Lowther, Mr. Boscawen, Sir John Temple, Mr. Titus, Mr. Yong: And are to meet this Afternoon at Three of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber: With Power to send for Persons, Books, Papers, Journals; and particularly the Book, and other Writings, touching this Business, formerly sent from this House to the Lords; and what else may conduce to the Business.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Sir John Langham, a Member of this House, have the Leave of this House to go into the Country; and be also dispensed with from attending the Employment of one of the Treasurers for the Poll Bill.