House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 22 April 1689

Lunæ, 22 die Aprilis; 1° Willielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Bailing and Escape of Brent.

ORDERED, That the Chairman of the Committee to whom the Matter relating to the Bailing Mr. Brent was referred, he being sick, do give his Report touching Sir James Smith to some other Member, so as the same may be made To-morrow Morning.

Leave for a Member to attend Lords.

Ordered, That Mr. Attorney General have Leave to be at the Bar of the House of Lords, as Counsel in a Cause between Strode and Sandys.

Solly's Estate.

Ordered, That Leave be given to Mr. Tho. Hill, to bring in a Bill to make good a Title to some Lands sold to one Mr. Solly.

Scavengers of Southwarke.

A Petition of divers Inhabitants of the Borough of Southwarke was read; setting forth, That they, being Scavengers there, and sworn to execute their Office, and obliged to pay the Rakers of their several Parishes, had no Power to levy the Assessment on the Inhabitants, by reason of the Expiring of the Statute of the 13th and 14th of Charles the Second; so that they have been great Sufferers, paying great Rates to the Rakers, and the Inhabitants refusing to pay them any thing but what they please: And desiring the said Statute to be revived.

Ordered, That the Petition do lie upon the Table, to be considered, when the Bill for reviving the Act for Licensing Hackney Coaches, is read a Second time.

Hackney Coaches.

A Petition of Henry Hutchins, and others, on the Behalf of themselves, and the rest of the Four hundred Hackney Coachmen, setting forth, That, to prevent the Mischiefs, arising to the Publick from the excessive Number of Hackney Coaches, an Act passed in the 13th and 14th of Charles the Second, amongst other Things, to license a limited Number of Coaches; which Act being expired, and the Number of Hackney Coaches much augmented; and there being a Bill depending in this Honourable House; and praying that the like Act may pass for them; was read.

Ordered, That the Petition do lie upon the Table, to be considered, when the Bill for reviving the Act for Licensing Hackney Coaches, is read a Second Time.

A Petition of the Inhabitants of Fleetstreet and the Strand, near and about Temple Bar; and the Inhabitants of King-street, Westminster; shewing, That King James the Second, upon Complaint to him made, that the unlimited Number of Hackney Coaches were Annoyances, and troublesome to Passengers and Traders, by stopping and choaking up the Streets, did, in November 1687, reduce them to Four hundred, as established; and that, after that, the Petitioners were free from the daily and hourly Stops, which hindered them from coming to their Shops, to their great Loss; and found a great Ease to their Trade, in Freedom of Passage in the Streets; and praying that the Number may not be increased; was read.

Ordered, That the Petition do lie upon the Table, to be considered when the Bill for reviving the Act for Licensing Hackney Coaches, is read a Second time.

Ditto.

A Bill for reviving a former Act for Licensing Hackney Coaches, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed, upon the Debate of the House, to Mr. Hamden, Lord Digby, Mr. Done, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Coningsby, Mr. Wogan, Sir Tho. Dyke, Mr. Tipping, Lord Falkland, Sir Cha. Raleigh, Mr. Gwyn, Mr. Howard, Sir Hen. Goffe, Mr. Howe, Sir Rob. Daverse, Mr. Grubb, Mr. Bickerstaffe, Mr. Barker, Mr. Chetwyn, Sir Tho. Clarges, Mr. Paul Foley, Sir John Williams, Mr. Colt, Mr. Waller, Mr. Carter, Sir John Knight, Mr. Hen. Herbert, Sir Bouch. Wray, Mr. Stockdale, Mr. Arnold, Sir* Thomson, Major Manley, Sir Peter Rich, Mr. Philips, Mr. Grey, Sir Wm. Poultny, Mr. Buscawen, Mr. Palmes, Sir H. Goodrick, Mr. Tho. Foley, Sir Tho. Barnadiston, Sir John Knatchbull, and all the Members that serve for the Cities of London and Westminster, and the County of Middlesex, and the Borough of Southwarke: And all that come are to have Voices: And they are to meet To-morrow in the Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, in the Exchequer Chamber. And it is to be an Instruction to the Committee, That a Provision be made, out of the Money arising yearly by Hackney Coaches, for establishing an Academy for the Education of young Gentlemen; and also, that some Provision be made for the French and Irish Protestants, who are fled from France and Ireland for their Religion.

Answer to Address again read.

His Majesty's Answer to the Address was, according to the Order of Saturday last, again read.

Dissenters Toleration.

Ordered, That the Bill for Ease and Indulgence to Protestant Dissenters, be read a Second time, on Friday next.

Exporting Corn, &c.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir Robert Legard;

Mr. Speaker, We are commanded by the Lords to acquaint this House, that they have passed the Bill for Exportation of Corn, without any Amendments.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Call of the House.

Ordered, That the Calling over the House be adjourned until Saturday next.

Supply.

Resolved, That this House do, To-morrow Morning at Ten of the Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of a Motion made on Saturday last, for a Supply to be given for the Navy.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Bigg and Sir Thomas Barnadiston have Leave to go into the Country, for a Fortnight.

Irish Clergy.

A Petition and Address of the Archbishops and Bishops, and Clergy, of Ireland, setting forth, That, by reason of the publick Calamity of that Kingdom, and Hatred of the Enemies of their Religion, they are constrained to take Retuge in this Kingdom; whereby they are divested of their Revenues, and all worldly Goods, and rendered unable to sustain their own or Families Necessities: And praying that their Condition may be taken into Consideration, and some convenient Relief and support be procured for them, by such Method and Means as the House shall think fit; was read.

Resolved, That his Majesty be humbly desired, by this House, to take into Consideration the Condition of the said Archbishops, Bishops, and Clergy, and to afford them some Relief, in such Way as to his Majesty shall seem meet.

Ordered, That such Members of the House, as are of his Majesty's most honourable Privy Council, do acquaint his Majesty with such the Desires of this House.

Address respecting War against France.

Resolved, That the Report from the Committee appointed to prepare an Address in relation to a War against France, be received on Wednesday Morning next, at Ten of the Clock; and nothing to intervene.

Supply Bill; Poll Tax.

Sir George Treby, according to the Order of Saturday last, reports from the Committee of the whole House, to whom the Bill for granting a Supply to their Majesties by a Poll, was referred, That they having taken the same into their Consideration, had thought fit to make several Amendments, and add several Clauses to the Bill: The which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were Once read throughout; and afterwards, several of them a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, were agreed unto by the House.

Then he acquainted the House, That the Committee had thought fit to come to a Resolution: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being read, is as followeth:

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That all such Persons as shall be named and appointed Justices of the Peace, at the Time of the Execution of this Act, be the Commissioners to put this Act in Execution, for the respective Counties, Cities, and Corporations; together with such other Persons as this House shall make and appoint.

The said Resolution being read a Second time, a Debate arose thereupon:

And the Question being put, That the House do agree with the Committee in the said Resolve;

It passed in the Negative.

Conference with Lords-Oaths of Allegiance, &c.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir Robert Legard;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a present Conference with this House in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference upon the Bill of Oaths.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House do agree to a present Conference with the Lords, as is desired.

And the Messengers being called in again, Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Resolved, That the Managers of the former Conference do manage this Conference.

Resolved, That Sir Joseph Tredenham be added to the Managers.

The Managers went to the Conference accordingly.

Sir Tho. Lee reports from the Conference, That the Persons appointed to manage the same had attended the Lords: And that the Earl of Nottingham managed on Behalf of the Lords, and insisted upon their former Amendments to the Bill of Oaths; and gave several Reasons for the same: Which he delivered, by comparing them with the Reasons of this House, and are as followeth:

In Answer to the First and Second Reasons, alleged by the House of Commons; it is agreed, that the Policy of the Law requires Men to swear Allegiance; and that it is the common and necessary Duty of all Subjects, and especially of the Clergy: But the Lords do not exempt them from taking these Oaths, but only differ with the House of Commons, about the Method by which they should be tendered.

To the Third Reasons; If the Lords should agree, That it is better to tender the Oaths in open Court than privately; yet That is not a sufficient Reason against the tendering them by Persons appointed by the King in Council; because the Officers and Judges of the Court may be so appointed, by virtue of the Clause offered by the Lords: Or, if it be not clearly enough expressed, it may be inserted more explicitly.

To the Fourth; The Clergy will be required to take the Oaths, by such Order in Council as is proposed by the Lords; and their not appearing, when so summoned, will amount to a Refusal; or, if it should not, the Lords would agree to any such Addition as would make it so.

To the other Reasons; The Clergy and the Members of the Universities, not distinguished from the Laity, because, upon all Promotions to any Degree or Preferment, they will be, equally with others, obliged to take the Oaths; and even those that are already in such Stations, will be obliged to take the Oaths, when required by Order in Council: And it seems to conduce more to the Settlement and Safety of the Government, that the King should be impowered to put the Fidelity of the Clergy to a Trial immediately, than to leave any who are ill-affected to the Government, so much Time as to the First of August, to be all that while undermining it.

The Clergy are obliged, by the Prayers which they must read in the Daily Service, to make such express and solemn Declarations of their Fidelity to the King and Queen by Name, that the putting them to the taking the Oaths is not so necessary to the public Safety, as in other Persons, who are not bound to make such frequent Declarations of their Fidelity.

In so critical a Time as the present is, it is not to be doubted, but, upon any Case of apprehending their ill Affections to the Government, the tendering the Oaths by Order in Council, will not only take of all Imputation of Hardship from his Majesty, but justify, and even require, a more rigorous Way of Proceeding against those that shall give any Cause of Offence.

Since during Queen Elizabeth's long and glorious Reign, in which she had both the pretended Title of the Queen of Scotts, and the deposing Power assumed by the Popes, to apprehend, this was found to be the safest Way for the publick Quiet: And the ill Effects of leaving the tendering the Oaths to the Queen's Discretion not having appeared in all that time, of so much Danger, and so many Conspiracies against her Person, the following a Pattern taken from the best Part of our History, seems most suitable to the present Time, than the falling on other Methods: Which the Lords think a sufficient Answer to the last Reason given by the House of Commons.

The Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, That the former Managers do withdraw, to prepare themselves for a free Conference with the Lords.

Ordered, That Sir Robert Howard be added to the Managers.

Resolved, That Sir John Guise do go to the Lords, to desire a free Conference on the Subject Matter of the last Conference, touching the Bill of Oaths.

Sir John Guise acquaints the House, That he having, according to their Order, been up at the Lords, to desire a free Conference; the Lords do agree to a present free Conference in the Painted Chamber.

Resolved, That the former Managers of the last Conference do manage this Conference.

And the Managers went to the free Conference accordingly.

The Managers being returned;

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be adjourned.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Norning, Nine of the Clock.