House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 12 May 1614

Jovis, 12o Maii

Bassett's Debts.

L.1. AN Act for enabling Sir Ro. Bassett to pay his Debts, and prefer his younger Children.

Bankrupts.

L. 1. An Act for the Discovery of fraudulent Practices of Bankrupts, and for the Relief of the Creditors against Bankrupts.

Drunkenness.

L. 1. An Act for suppressing the Vice of Drunkenness.

Recusants.

Ordered, That the Serjeant shall go to the Town-clerk of London, and to the Clerk of the Peace of Middlesex, to warn them to bring in to the Committee for Recusants, all such Letters as they, or any of them, have received, in favour or on the behalf of any Priests, Jesuits, or Recusants; and that he also warn Doctor Foster to bring, and shew forth, to the said Committee, the Licence, Letters, or other Discharge, which he pretendeth to have, from being indicted, or otherwise proceeded against, on Saturday, at Three of the Clock, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Virginia Company.

The Company for Virginia prefer a Petition; which read : and Monday, Nine of the Clock, appointed for the Counsel for the Company of Virginia, in this House.

Reading of Bills, &c.

Ordered, To be here To-morrow Morning by Seven of the Clock; and that Day to be wholly employed in reading and committing of Bills.

Impositions.

Sir Edw. Sands - Report from the Committee for the Conference with the Lords, for Impositions. -

The End, to inform his Majesty's Understanding, of the Subjects Right against Impositions; which wronged by Misinformation. -

The Desire of this Conference grounded upon our Conceit of the Generality of the Grievance; for the Loss not the Merchants, but ours; they buying from us exported, and selling to us imported. Commodities, at high Rates, which we pay for. -

The End of this Conference, first to inform the Lords of our Motives to stand to our Right; and to move them to join with us in Petition to his Majesty for easing this Burthen: To present this Petition to his Majesty, with a Remonstrance of our Right; that so, this eased, we may, with better Judgment and Alacrity, proceed to the King's Supply, the first End of this Parliament. -

The Way : A present Message, for Desire of Conference with the Lords, concerning Matters of Impositions. -

1. One selected Person to make a Preface: Therein to declare some Matters in Fact: 1. That his Majesty's Right of imposing upon Currants was adjudged in Exchequer : That this was complained of in Parliament, and petitioned his Highness for it; his Majesty referred them to the Law : That, before the next Session, he had imposed upon 1,300. * and 40 several Commodities. 2. His Majesty's Claim, in Presence of both Houses of Parliament, to Right of imposing, drew this House to search; and, upon Search, resolved, upon the Question, without One Negative, that his Majesty, without Parliament, could not impose. -

That hereupon a Petition for this and other Grievances, offered his Majesty : That he answered all the rest in Writing, save only this. -

That conceived, the Reason of this to be, because this Claim made before both Houses; and this House only petitioning, his Majesty thought not fit to answer this.

2. To signify to their Lordships, that this concerning the Body of the Kingdom, we desire to inform them of the true State of this Business :

3. To desire the Lords, if it may be with Conveniency, to appoint a Conference by a Committee of their whole House, or as many as they pleased. -

Nine Heads, Nine Burthens upon several Persons: I. An Introduction, briefly declaring the Matter in Fact, and State of the Question. - Direction to him in Three things, wherein we conceive the King to have, by Misinformation, done other than any his Ancestors :

1. The Time; For now by Letters Patents, and in Print, these Impositions set, for him and his Heirs for ever; which never done before : Which strange; because no Proclamation bindeth longer than the King's Life ; so could not impose, but during his own Life.

2. Multitude of Impositions. Queen Mary - Gascoigne Wines and Cloths: Queen Eliz. added only One, of sweet Wines. From Ed, III. to Queen M. none. In Edw. III. Ed. II. Ed. I. but Five in all. - That, upon a Petition last Parliament, divers hundreths of these taken away; so now not remaining above 300 or 400 ; yet that those remaining, far more worth than all the rest abolished.

3. The Claim : For none of his Ancestors ever did so, but pretended Wars, Needs, &c. Prayed Continuance but for a Time. - This committed to Mr. Attorney.

II. Matter of State. This to Sir Edw. Sands.

III. Matter of Common Law, the Sinews of the Body of the Commonwealth. This to Mr. Tho. Crew, with some Statutes strengthening it; wherein both a Declaration, and Argumentation.

IV. The Statutes from Ed. I. to the End of Ed. III. This upon Mr. Whitlocke. From Ed. III. till Queen Mary, during the Reign of Ten great Princes; during all which, a Cessation from Impositions: During which Time, the Statute of Tonage and Poundage granted by Parliament; first for Years ; after, temp. Ed. IV. granted for Life: Which hath continued ever sithence. Which produceth Two memorable Points.

1. That if those great Princes, and warlike, had had Right to impose, they would never have taken them by Gift from the People : 2. The good Disposition of the Subjects here; that, when the Kings forbear to impose, they give more than Kings have before required.

This commended to Mr. Wentworth and Mr. Hoskyns, leaving them to divide, as they shall please. From Queen M. till now, upon Mr. Hyde.

V. Answer of Objections, urged at the Chequer Bar, and here last Parliament, and now. - To Three; Mr. Chiborne, Mr. Jones, and Mr. Hackwill; which Hackwill a Convert, upon Sight of Precedents, &c.

VI. Upon point of Convenience : Which fell most by the Merchants; and therefore they desired, they might -

Alleged by Merchants of the West, that paid all the Principal of their Stock in One Year; they of London, half. That this occasioneth Impositions beyond Seas, That this at last cometh out of all our Purses.

To this Sir Jo. Bennett appointed; but with much Unwillingness, for that he had no Understanding of it. A Letter now newly received from him, of a great Loss happened him; which now -

VII. The Use of other Nations : Which the King told us, that all other did; where to be proved, that no King in Christendom hath Power to impose without Consent of the Three Estates. For the Judgment in the Exchequer, that they have not proceeded more majorum: That they should in this Case have asked the Advice of Parliament. Precedents, that, when done otherwise, the Barons have been censured in Parliament. Some Points above the Judges Commission, or Power: - Not the Title to the Crown, nor the Subjects their Liberties.

This to Sir Ro. Owen; who likewise is to move the Lords to join in a Petition to the King, with a Remonstrance of our Right.

For a Corollary of all these Business, Five Things required by the Committee :

1. Sincerity and Truth. One Untruth much disadvantageth.

2. Strength. Not many Arguments, but strong. - To bring their Books and Records with them.

3. Mutual Aid. - Promised, now to be commanded; and the Help of the Merchants.

4. Secrecy - To deliver out no Copies. Truth, going to War, must be armed. - This only till the Conference.

5. Unity. That if any doubt, he may be here satisfied ; and the Question will be resolved, as before, without any Contradiction or Negative. -

Stewards, &c. Nat.

Mr. Dr. Bird and Mr. Dr. James bring from the Lords, a Bill for the Naturalization of Sir Francis Steward Knight, and Wm. Ramsey Esquire. -

Signified from them, that they are satisfied they have received the Communion within this Month ; and have taken the Oath of Allegiance. -

Impositions.

Sir D. Digges and Sir Sam. Sands, appointed to Sir Jo. Bennett's Part. - Hath no Experience. This hath not been debated, as the Matter of Right.

The Course, reported, agreed, upon the Question.

Mr. Hoskyns moveth for a Warrant, from this House, for Search in the Tower, and Exchequer, and to any other, that hath any Records; and to have Copies of any such of them whereof they have not Copies under the Officers Hand already. - That he hath many Records very material, that have not been examined. - Desireth these may be copied out, at the Charge of the House. - An Act of Parliament, that we may have Copies of all these.

Sir Jerome Horsey putteth them in mind of Sir Ro. Cotton.

Mr. James: - That the Custom Books very material, which are in the Exchequer.

Mr. Brooke . - That Doubt, upon this Bill, of a Monopoly.

Mr. Fuller speaketh against the Word " sole."

Sir Edw. Mountague - against the Word "further Continuance." This -

Sir Wm. Strowde; - That Money may be given by the * -

Re-committed to the same Committees: - Now presently, in the Committee Chamber.

Non-residents, &c.

L. 2. An Act concerning Non-residents, Pluralities of Benefices, and taking of Farms by spiritual Men. -

Sir Tho. Lake: - Wisheth well to the Success of this Bill, as a Mean to further the Growth of Religion. The Church the only Garden of Paradise. - Planting, and weeding. - More Care taken in Queen Eliz. Time, to weed, than plant. - That the former ill Success by not good Fashion holden with the Lords of the Clergy. - Moveth a Conference with some of the Convocation-house, if it may stand with Order of the House: Is against Commendams of Bishops; and against Laymens holding of spiritual Livings.

Sir James Perrott, - against taking of Farms, - They to be Pastors of Souls, not Tillers of Ground.

Mr. Fuller: - That the greatest Livings, where greatest People, are Pluralities. - More Cause now for Provision for Ministers, than in H. VIII. Time; for now lawfully married; then lived in another Course. - A Provision, where Two Livings near adjacent.

Sir Hughe Beeston: - To have the Names of Cambridge and Oxford to be put out; and, instead thereof, to be, " both the Universities."

Sir Jo. Sammes: - Liketh well of the Clause.

Hath seen an honest Minister sued for dwelling in an House in the same Parish where his own House dwelt. -

A Vicarage of 300 l. per Annum, 11, or 12,000 Communicants, - Infinite Ignorance. - Seafaring Men. -

That the Vicar, Justice of the Peace, and Quorum; which keepeth him from the Church upon the Sabaoth Days. -

Moveth, no spiritual Man, with Cure of Souls, under the Degree of a Bishop, or Dean of a Cathedral Church, may be Justice - Peace.

Mr. Ashley moveth a Conference, and a Union, &c.

Sir Edw. Sands; - To aim at bonum and bonum possibile.

- The first Part oft in this House. The One lamented of all: The second Part some Remedy. - The Cause of this Disease; Necessity, Covetousness. Necessity, for want of Ministers, or Living; Covetousness, taking Advantage of this Necessity, hath done much Hurt. Many Benefices very small; Things very dear. This considered last Parliament, how small Livings might be increased, without Prejudice of any. - Moveth a Conference with the Bishops, as Lords of Parliament; not with the Convocation-house, or Council. - That the Bishops never unwilling with the Passage of this Bill, so the small Livings might be made in some Measure competent. That the ancient Church had ever care of sufficient Maintenance for the Ministers.

2. That they might not be drawn into secular Trades.

- Would give them Leave to purchase, and to hold, as much as should maintain Hospitality.

Sir H. Anderson: - That liveth in a Country where the Churchmen the Governors. They have, as their hereditary Possessions, the greatest Part of the Country: Many great Parsonages therein left without able Teachers: hereby more Recusants than in any Part of England; for so much take Charge of the Businesses of the Country. Will sometime have Two Livings, and have no Preacher in either. - Moveth a Conference with the Lords the Bishops.

Sir Geo. Moore moveth a Conference. Liketh to have Addition, not to have any a Justice of Peace.- - That the Bill first to be committed, and after Return of it, then a Conference to be prayed.

Sir A. Cope: - That in most Parliaments, for Thirty Years past. Bills for this have passed : - Like Hydraes Heads, they have the more increased. That this proceedeth out of Popery. That Non-residency -

That all Lords, and great ones, interessed, by reason of their Prerogatives of being Chaplains. That Popery hath hatched up this Monster, which will eat out the Bowels of the Church. That neither Pope, nor any other, can dispense with this, it being a Knot of God's own knitting. -

That this Calling to take care of Souls. - Christ's triple Charge to Peter, to feed his Sheep. - That few of the Non-residents to be seen in their own Pulpits; but, when they preach, do it -

A Soul-murthering Non-resident as dangerous to the Soul, as a Murtherer of the Body to it. -

That we have a learned Ministry; yet wisheth them more holy, and more religious, Three Parts of Five, Non-residents. Drones, or scandalous Ministers. That as many Non-residents now, as in the Beginning of Queen Eliz. Time. - The Parliament the only fit Time. -

If we were upon our sick Bed, we would do otherwise than now. - Not to be satisfied with Bills, but to

petition the King, that the Souls of his Subjects might be precious with him ; and that the Parliament might not be dissolved till some Course taken about this. -

Committed to the King's Privy Council, Sir A. Cope, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir James Perrott, Sir Wm. Cooke, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Edw. Gyles, Sir Tho. Hobby, Sir Miles Fleetewood, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir H. Cary, Sir James Pary, Sir Roger Owen, Sir Olyver Luke, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Drake, Sir H. Anderson, Sir Francis Goodwyn, Sir H. Withrington, Mr. Crew, Mr. Ashley, Mr. Chidleighe, Sir Tho. Maunsell, Sir Jo. Scott, Sir Peter Manwood, Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir Roger Wilbraham, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Tho. Wharton, Mr. Marshall, Mr. Duncombe, Sir Ro. Moore, Sir Ed. Lewkenor, Sir Hughe Beeston, Sir Rich. Titchborne, Sir Tho. Grymes, Sir Rich. Worseley, Sir Tho. Rowe: - Monday in the Afternoon, in Court of Wards.