House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 09 May 1604

Mercurii, nono Maii, 1604

Pedigrees.

L. 1. B. FOR due Proof of Pedigrees and Descents.

Leather-cutters.

L. 2. B. For Explanation and Enlargement of the Statute 5o Eliz. touching Artificers, occupying Cutting of Leather: - Upon the double Question, for Commitment and Ingrossing, rejected.

Watermen.

L. 2. B. Touching Wherry men, or Watermen: - Committed to Sir Rob. Wroth, Sir Geo. Moore, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Peak, Sir Henry Billingsley, Sir Edw. Hobby, Mr. Gore, Sir John Hollis, Mr. Johnson, Sir Rob. Knollys, Sir Edmond Bowyer, Mr. Tho. Fanshawe: - To meet on Monday next, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Jermy's Decree.

L. 2. B. For the Making void of a Decree in Chancery, and of the Assurance made thereupon by Sir Tho. Jermy, Knight, &c. - Committed to Sir Rob. Wroth, Mr. Francis Moore, Sir John Heigham, Sir John Peyton, Mr. Fuller, Sir Edw. Grevill, Sir Charles Cornwallys, Sir Edw. Stafford, Sir Geo. Moore, Mr. Crewe, Mr. D. James, Mr. Nath. Bacon, Sir Edw. Lewknor, Sir Daniel Dun, Sir Nich. Saunders, Sir Rob. Wingfield: - To meet on Tuesday, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Ordered, To hear Counsel on both Parts at the Committee.

Privilege - Sir T. Shirley.

The Serjeant sent, with his Mace, for Sir Tho. Shirley, according to the Order Yesterday.

Person to be brought in.

After his going, moved, that the Sheriff of Shropshire, attending at the Door, might come in, and be heard :Which was not assented; but delivered for a Rule;

That no Delinquent is to be brought in, but by the Serjeant with his Mace.

Prohibitions.

L. 2. B. For Costs in a Prohibition: - Committed to Sir Tho. Bishop, Sir John Bennett, Mr. D. James, Mr. D. Styward, Sir Tho. Ridgeway, Sir Wm. Selby, Mr. Hyde, Sir Wm. Strowd, Mr. Crewe, Mr. Moore, Sir John Townshend, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Eure, Sir Henry Beamount, Mr. Brook, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Overbury, Mr. Francis Moore, Sir Thomas Beamount, Sir John Harpur, Sir John Thynne: - To meet on Tuesday next, in the Middle Temple Hall.

Usury.

Committees in the Bill against Usury: [a] Sir Edwyn Sandys, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Henry Billingsley, Mr. Edw. Francis, Sir Thomas Freake, Mr. Yelverton, Sir John Williams, Sir John Heigham, Sir Rob. Oxenbridge, Mr. Gowre, Mr. Lawrence Hide, Mr. Winch, Mr. Moore, Sir Francis Barrington, Sir Edw. Stafford, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Martyn, Sir Robert Wroth, Sir Geo. Fleetwood, Mr. Pettus, Sir Charles Cornwallis, D. James, Sir John Scott, Mr. Fuller, Sir John Thynne, Mr. Wyseman, Mr. Wymarke, Mr. Tey: - To meet on Tuesday next, at Two a Clock in the Afternoon, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Conference reported.

Sir Francis Bacon reporteth Two Commissions of Conference with the Lords, touching

Purveyors:

Union.

Purveyors, &c.

For Purveyors, &c. he said, the Lords Scope was to exterminate all Purveyors, &e. That they were sensible of our Griefs, capable of our Reasons, and careful of Remedies. Purveyors termed by the Lords Harpyiae : Wheresoever Victuals were, there they would seize.

Our Reasons had Two Heads :

1. The Law was on our Side. -

. . His Majesty's Means were increased; therefore the Subject doth expect he will not press upon the People.

Answ. 1. Summum jus summa injuria: - A Rule between Party and Party; a fortiori in the King's Case.

2. Necessitas non habet legem: - A thing impossible to maintain the King's Charge without some Help in this Kind.

3. Lex Talionis: - Many penal Laws, which the King doth not press : He looketh for the like Measure of us.

2. Touching the King's Ability and Bounty. -

[b] Adhuc messis in herba. -

The King's Charge in Ireland is yet 120,000 l. per Annum.

The cautionary Towns 30,000 l. -

Impositions in Spain 30 in the hundred: - We should be better Gainers by War, than by Peace, if not for other Consideration of State,

For Remedy, they propounded Composition by the Subject, 50,000l. per Annum. -

The Shires, 27,000l. Supplies in Specie, 10,000l. -

This concerns not the Houshold and Stable. -

King, Queen, Prince, Duke, and all included, with Houshold, Stable, &c. 50,000l.

The Lords and Clergy should be assessed.

Conclus. Omnia probate; quod bonum est, tenete.

Union with Scotland.

For the Conference touching the Union, he said, the Time was wholly spent in considering of Instructions for the Bill to enable Commissioners, &c.

They considered of the Preface:

The Body [c]. -

Agreed to name the Commissioners before the Bill be drawn; for it cannot be perfect, before the Commissioners be named.

Urged, that the Instructions for the Bill were directed to be delivered in Writing, and not verbally.

Excused by the Reporter, that he heard of no such Direction, neither had he any Commission from the House.

Privilege - Refusal to release a Member under Arrest.

The Serjeant returneth from the Fleet: Said, he demanded the Body of Sir Tho. Shirley three times, and called upon him at his Chamber Window.

That the Warden's Wife had taken all the Keys, and discharged her Servants from Attendance on the Prisoners: Cried out. That if they would call her Husband, he would satisfy the House. - He was loth to use Violence, neither

4.-1. The Form not petitionary;- As a Proposition from the King.

2. Bene auspicari; Beginning in God's Name.

3. The immediate Motive:- The Discrepance of Laws of both full of Inconvenience.

4. Hold of the King's Royal Promise:- That if his Line should fail, that the Kingdom of Scotland shall make a Cession.

That in the Preamble we should not prejudge any thing, nor speak of any thing done.- Pars minima puella sui.

The Body.-

The Subject: Not rest merely upon Union, but of all Matters that may concern the Weal of both Kingdoms:- Separation or other thing.

The Form:- Into Writing tripartite: The King One Part: 2. The Parliament of England: 3. The Parliament of Scotland.

No Privilege, Law, Custom, Prerogative, to accept or refuse at Liberty for the Commissioners.

If they name Commissioners jointly; if one die cessat.- Two parts in Three divided, the Authority to be left in open Parliament to be named.

had he any such Commandment, therefore returned without him.

Answer from the King- Arrest of a Member.

Mr. Secretary Herbert reporteth, that his Majesty, upon the Reading of the Precedent of Ferrers, was graciously pleased to leave it to their Liberty, to proceed in the Case of Sir Tho. Shirley, as they thought fit; with Care and Caution for the other Prisoners.

Purveyors.

For the Matter of Purveyors, that he had considered of the great Grievances; did heartily wish their Redress; and whosoever impugned it, while he was King of England, he would stand with them, and strive to give Remedy, &c.

Ditto.

Moved, That the Demands, touching Purveyors, might be examined.

Business to be done.

Mr. Speaker remembereth the House of Three Things, now to be handled :

Purveyors.

Frame of the Act of Union.

Sir Tho. Shirley.

Privilege- a Member arrested.

First, for Sir Tho. Shirley, some offered to dispute the Case in Law; arguing, that the Act was not sufficient to secure the Warden, and Simpson, &c.

Others, That the Act for new Executions, &c. helpeth all: - That that might pass.

Mr. Recorder: - That helpeth not: And that now the Time is only to treat for the Delivery of Sir Tho. Shirley, and not of the Matters in Law: And for that he moved. that Six Gentlemen of the House might be selected, and sent to the Fleet, with the Serjeant and his Mace to attend them, and there require the Delivery of Sir Tho. Shirley; and, if it were denied, to press to his Chamber, and, providing for the Safety of the Prison and Prisoners, to free him with Force, and bring him away with them to the House.

This Motion was put to Question, and the House divided upon it:

With the Yea, 176.

With the Noe, 153.

Difference, 23.

Resolved, They should be sent, with Direction and Authority, as before.

After this Question, Mr. Speaker putteth the House in mind, that all such as were sent, and did enter the Prison in that Manner, were, by the Law, subject to an Action upon the Case; and thereupon thought meet to stay that Proceeding.

Sir Roland Litton offering to speak, it grew to Question, Whether he should speak any more in this Matter; and over-ruled, that he ought not.