House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 30 April 1604 (2nd scribe)

Lunae, 30 Die Aprilis 1604

Rodney's Estate.

Mr Hoskins bringeth in the Bill for Sir John Rodney, with Amendments; and being read, the Bill, upon the Question, was ordered to be ingrossed.

Committees.

Sir Tho. Jermye's Counsel, - on Friday.

My Lord of Hartford, Mr. Seymor, - Tuesday seven-night.

Sail-cloths.

The Bill for the Making of Sail-cloths, called Poll-davies: - The first Reading.

Apprentices.

The Bill for the Taking of Apprentices: - Second Reading, and committed to the Committee for Rating of Labourers Wages.

Losse's Estate.

The Bill for the Sale of the Lands of Sir Hugh Losse, Knight, &c. - The first Reading.

Tanners, &c.

The Bill for Explanation and Enlargement of some Parts of a Statute, made in the fifth Year of the Reign of the late Queen Eliz. intituled, An Act, touching Tanners, Curriers, Shoemakers, and other Artificers, occupying Cutting of Leather: - The first Reading.

London Merchants.

An Act for a Court of Merchants in the City of London, as is in Scotland and France: - The second Reading, and dashed, upon the Question.

Mr. Holt: - Unnatural, tyrannous. - Discretion. - Justice, Equity. - Precept to the Sheriff. - No Prohibition, Certiorari.

Bruce's Nat.

Mr. D. Swale and Mr. D. Hone bring, from the Lords, a Bill for the Naturalizing of Sir Edw. Bruce, Lord of Kinlosse, his Wife and Children; and for the Confirmation of Letters Patents made unto him.

Purveyors, &c.

Purveyors and Cartakers.

Sir Fr. Bacon: - The Audience with the King, in the Lobby. -

Proposition by Sir Fr. Answer by his Majesty: Some Interlocution and Speech. -

Germanicus, Britannicus, &c. where they had been victorious: Pater patriae, better for human Honour: Semper Augustus, greater: - Of the Divine Majesty. -

The King might take many of the first Names by Blood ; they, by Bloodshed. -

Nothing more worthy of him, than Pater patriae. -

We [a] miramur, habemus; quae laudemus, expectamus:

- Not so, but otherwise.

His Heart's like the Sands of the Sea: Nothing, but he could comprehend; nothing so little, but he could touch, and discern. -

Commendation: - Church decided ; Nobility increased : The Burden of the People -

Our Respect in our Proceeding: The Substance of our Desire: Motives and Reasons. -

No Part of our Thoughts to abridge his Majesty's Prerogative. - To have our old Laws confirmed. -

Respect to the Green Cloth. -

St. Austen, " The Leaves, and Roots, and Nettles." - Those Roots bear those Leaves. -

Purveyors the Leaves, the Green Cloth the Roots, gave Support to the Leaves. -

Abuses themselves : Abuses which did support. -

Abuses: 1. Take that he ought not: 2. In One Quantity: 3. Take in an unlawful and an undue Manner. -

Not Takers, but Taxers. They did tax, ad redimendam exemptionem: Present Sums, and annual; ne noceant. -

The only Multipliers : Scarce the third Part comes to his Majesty's Use. -

The Price, according to the Gree; now set down. -

The Place : in the meanest -

The Time : - The Twilight. -

The Manner: - The Commissions many. -

Abuses, which did support. -

Commissions, against the Tenor and Warrant of Law. -

Motives. - The Matter itself spake. -

1. 3. Since King H. III. (Magna Charta) a Part of every King's Glory, had made a Law against Purveyors. In Edw. III. Time, Ten Laws. -

2. He would not hold himself guiltless, &c.

3. Pyndarus: Optima res aqua, because common; pessima res Purveyors, because to the Commons.

The King's Answer.

1. A Declaration of his Mind: 2. Of his Care already: 3. His Pleasure. -

The Name of Father of the People, greater than Emperor: - Of those, that in fact would give Comfort. - Opposite to Rehoboam's Answer. He would not answer so, but he would ease the Burden. Hoped, his Fortune would be contrary: To unite, where Rehoboam hath rent and torn. -

Cause to be sorry, and glad : Sorry, that the general Expectation of Relief and Solace should be frustrate by these Men. -

The Punishment of that which is past: Provision for that, it is to come : Satisfaction in both, - Not only old, but new, if need be. -

His Care. - In Summer last, a definite and settled Price of his Provisions : A certain Number of Carts. - Appealed to his Council, who testified it.

Pleasure. - To have some Conference with the Privy Council.

The Petition read by Mr. Hare.

The Officers of the Houshold, Interruption: - Disproof: Justifying. -

That, when Complaint was made, they did Justice. -

Never Complaint in the Stable, since my Lord of Worcester.

The Officer of the Navy, the like; Lord Admiral. -

But by Relation -

Answ. That would be verified. -

Usage. -

Usage, or Prescription, contrary to a positive Statute, void. -

Not possible, the King should be served.

Answ. Quia mirum. Magnum mysterium, that the King could not be served, if his Laws observed.

Lord Cecyll: - Felony, Misdemeanor: To be prosecuted in the Country.

Union with Scotland.

Conference touching the Union. - Prosecuted upon the same Grounds.

- Our Instructions. - Many here. -

Introduction: Matter: Conclusion. -

The Lord Chancellor's Admonition. - Partition-wall taken away, no Man to repair it, &c.

Lord Cecyll - a Project from the King. - That it was not his Meaning, to take upon him, if the State not secured. Maluit non dimicare, quam non vincere.

Great Magnanimity, and Policy, to have the Name; great Moderation, and Justice, to leave it. -

The Conference not in Season.

Answ. That it should rather provoke us. His Majesty's Proposition conditional.

The Reply. - Ita Hortensii eloquentiam probo, ut potius delectari, quam decipi. -

Their Confutation into a Commendation of our Loyalty, our Liberty, our Gravity, our Carriage in the Conference, commended. This the Reply. -

The Matter of the Name. -

The Matter of naming the Commissioners to be proceeded in, notwithstanding. - We shall hear from the Lords, before any further Proceeding.

Punishing Purveyor.

Sir Roger Aston. - That, upon Examination, by my Lord of Worcester, of a Purveyor, the King gave him over to my Lord Chief Justice, and commanded, he should be hanged, if he were found guilty.

Purveyors.

A Meeting this Afternoon, by the former Committee for Purveyors.

Assert Lands.

Asserts: - To-morrow.

Lucas.

Mrs. Lucas' Bill, and Committee, delivered to Sir Edw. Mountague.

Religion.

Mr. Vice-chamberlain, with divers others, sent, to let the Lords know our Desire for Conference with the Lords, touching Religion, according to his Majesty's former Pleasure signified.

Throckmorton's Writ of Error.

Mr. Stephens and Mr. Hugh Davenport, of Counsel with Sir Rob. Vernon, and Mr. Serjeant Harris and Hutton, of Counsel with Sir Wm. Herbert, &c. were heard at large in the Case of Sir Rob. Vernon.

Sir Rob. Vernon, To-morrow Morning, at Eight a Clock, again.

Conferences.

Mr. Attorney General, D. Swale, and D. Hone, from the Lords, say, That the Lords give a Way unto the Conference of Religion, in due Time: - That the Conference of the Union might precede. - The Name, and Naming of Commissioners. - They will intimate the Opinions of the Judges, which touching the Name. - They desire, that the Naming of Commissioners be handled in a Conference this Afternoon, at Two a Clock, in the usual Place. - To confer; and, if it may be, to conclude.

Religion.

Sir Rob. Wingfield: - The Message mistaken. - Not to be tied to ecclesiastical, but Religion generally. - Not to confer so hastily this Afternoon.

Mr. Fuller: - The Judges Opinion. - First to intimate their Opinion, and then to confer. -

That we have not yet debated of it; but to give Satisfaction, to attend.

To hear from the Lords, what should be the Matter of the Conference, or what Course should be taken.

Calthorp's Jointure.

Committees, and Bill, for Mr. Calthorp, delivered to Mr. Moore.

Recusants; Outlawries.

Committees, and Bills, for Recusants convicted, and for the Bill, touching secret Outlaries, &c. both delivered to Mr. Eure.