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1622–3.
Sept.—Jan. |
200. The Proceedings of the English Lords Commissioners and
the States Ambassadors concerning the treaty between the English
and Dutch East India Companies (referred to, ante, p. 29), between
September 1622, when the negociations were renewed, and January
1623, when the States Ambassadors had audience of the King to
take leave (see No. 246). [All these papers, viz., Nos. 201–222, being
without date, it has been thought better to place them together.] |
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201. "Concerning the restitution of ships taken by those of the
Netherlands from the English East India Company." Arguments
on both sides. Endorsed: "Reasons that restitution of ships should
be made without demand, with proofs of our divers demands notwithstanding." [Three pages. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 36.] |
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202. "The state of the questions depending as yet undetermined
between the English and Dutch East India Companies concerning
restitution. The English demand (1) the discount for pepper left to
two indifferent merchants of each nation; (2) goods taken at Lantar;
(3) cloth taken in two ships at Patani; (4) 8,000 ryals of eight;
(5) 10s. for every ryal taken from them in the Indies. Also damage
for delay of restitution. Arguments on both sides. [Two pages, two
copies. East Indies, Vol. II., Nos. 37, 38.] |
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203. State of the negociations between the Lords Commissioners
and the States Ambassadors. The pepper they take to be accorded.
The ships taken by the Dutch accorded for a certain sum of money.
Their merchandise taken before the treaty accorded according to the
value of the place taken. The question arises of changing the value
of the Black Lion. Fifteen bales of linen upon the point of accord. |
| Sept.—Jan. |
For Pulicat "they shall have all the treaty gives them." Pooloroor
shall be restored. [The expenses of colleges] schools they shall cease.
"For Banda [Lantar] they will render all in specie," with interest to
the full value of those goods here in Europe. For ryals of eight the
Ambassadors present [sic] restitution in specie. For reglement of
justice that they (the English) should have justice over themselves,
the Dutch over themselves. Touching forts also in the Moluccas,
Amboyna, and Bantam (sic ? Banda), they desire that the treaty be
observed, and joint agreement where and how many are to be made.
Touching the ships of defence, the Ambassadors pray they may not
be pressed to innovate or change the treaty. Arguments. Also
concerning the Black Lion, "yet notwithstanding they shall be
[ready] to hear his Majesty's reasons and y[ield] to a reasonable
abatement." [Three pages, mutilated. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 39.] |
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204. The States Ambassadors' report of the negociations with
the Lords Commissioners concerning Banda (called by the English
Lantar). In reference to the Dutch occupation of Banda, and the
loss in consequence which the English declare they have sustained in
wares and moveable goods to the value of about 7,000 ryals, for
which they demand restitution. The Dutch maintain that by treaty
the English were forbidden to have any wares there. After examination by the King at Hampton Court his Majesty proposed that
the Dutch should keep two thirds of said wares and restore one third
to the English, to which the Dutch assented, so that they might be
recompensed for the third part of the cost they had undergone, and
this question was put off until the Privy Council and said Ambassadors were better prepared for it. The English Company have since
demanded restitution of the like wares in Europe, and the Ambassadors made an offer to them "to the end they may not break off,"
but the English merchants were not willing to accept "so reasonable
a proffer." Reasons why the Ambassadors perceive they cannot
agree, and why the English should content themselves with what
the Dutch merchants, persuaded by their Ambassadors, have with a
free heart already proffered, "and that they (the English) would not
think that in anywise the Ambassadors will or can go further
therein." [Two pages. French; also a translation in English.
East Indies, Vol. II., Nos. 40, 41.] |
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205. State of the negociations between the States Ambassadors
and the Lords Commissioners. "English merchants' charges granted."
For rice the Hollanders demand the like price granted to the
English. For the Black Lion they demand restitution, she being
lost by negligence, not by the hand of God. Question concerning
her goods. The Expedition taken by the Hollanders; overthrown
by the cable of an Englishman; by the right of the sea to be borne
half and half, but if the law of the sea bear it not, they will render
the whole. The goods of Lantar his Majesty hath judged two parts
to the States, and the English the third part in specie. The merchants retreated from this judgment, the King being misinformed.
In conclusion the merchants of Holland offer restitution of all, but
being required to pay it in Europe, refuse, and so it rests. [Two
pages. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 42.] |
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206. [The East India Company's] propositions fit and convenient
for the rule and government of the trade between the two Companies. Have made it manifestly appear to their Lordships that
their people in the East Indies have endured all the marks
and extremities of servitude and slavery under the pretended
sovereignty of the Dutch, whereby the honour and reputation of
the English nation has not only been trodden upon and degraded
to the utmost amongst the eastern people, but their trade has also
been very much wronged and impaired without any likelihood of
meeting with better success, unless some course and orders be taken
that these wrongful proceedings receive public censure from the
States. Propose, first, that public declaration be made at
Jacatra and such other places as shall seem fit to their President
and Council. Concerning the infliction of whipping, imprisonment,
imposition of fines, taxes, &c., upon the English by the Dutch; that
they were acts entirely disallowed by the King and the States, and
contrary to the treaty, and that restitution be made of all such fines,
customs, &c. That all officers concerned in these injuries and
extortions be forthwith recalled and punished as disturbers of the
common peace, according to the last article of the treaty. Touching
the VIIth article of the treaty, the English propose that they should
enjoy at the fort of Pulicat the liberty prescribed to them by
treaty, or else be delivered from all charges there. That according
to the VIIIth article the punishment of their own people should be
left to them, and that they should enjoy the same privileges in
payment of the garrisons, and in serving themselves with the
natives as the Dutch. And for the reasons herein stated, that it be
judged henceforth unnecessary to employ such a number as 20 ships
of defence. That, according to the explanation of the XIIIth article,
it be left to the Council of Defence to make choice of some fit place
for residence; the hostility of Bantam excludes that place; neither
is Jacatra an indifferent place; they therefore propose that an
indifferent place be selected.
As to the XVth article. They desire it to be declared that they
are neither subject to the charges of the Dutch schools, the table
of their governors, nor their presents made.
For the XXIIIth article. They desire that the forts and all at
Pooloroon be restored in the same condition as when taken from
them, and also the fort at the Isle of Lontor (Lantar).
For the XXIVth article. The three years mentioned in this
article being now passed, they desire that the question of forts be
resumed, and that it be directly determined what number and in
what place the English may build forts in the Moluccas, Banda, and
Amboyna. [Four pages. Two copies in French, and a translation
in English. East Indies, Vol. II., Nos. 43, 44, 45.] |
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207. [The States Ambassadors'] answers to the above propositions. The introduction not thought fit to be answered. Concern
ing scorn spoken of the King or estate, punishment to follow by
death, or other equity. The 7th article may be well accommodated.
The 8th may be also accommodated with the explanation. Concerning the 20 ship of defence, keep the article of the treaty, the ships
remaining, the employment according to the common council. The
explanation of the 13th article shall be accommodated. The 15th
may be accomodated. The 23rd; the English are in possession,
and "the dispute of declamation will multiply causes and pretences
that will be envious. Lantar is not an island, but a village in
Bantam." The 24th and last. Conceive the intention of the article
to be that three years should be given "after the publication of the
treaty." "Hope there is no need of fortification. They shall have
such a reglement of trade as will conserve amity. And if there
should be need, it will require the Council of Defence their opinion,
and the Council being not able to foresee this demand of anticipation
having no commission to treat of it." [Two pages. East Indies,
Vol. II., No. 46.] |
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208. "Propositions for the execution of the articles of the treaty
and explanation thereof between the two Companies." These are
to the same purport as No. 206, but without the prefatory remarks.
Sec. Calvert has struck out the first two paragraphs in reference
to the restitution of fines, customs, &c., and the recall of those
officers who have been disturbers of the common peace, and has
added the marginal note, "The like impositions as are now put upon
the English at Jacatra to be yielded by the Dutch in the fort which
the English shall build hereafter." To the 7th article, touching the
fort at Pulicat, he has written "Agreed," and the 8th article and
explanation as to the punishment of their own people Sec. Calvert
has struck out, but has added in marginal notes, in reference to the
engagement of equal privileges, "these payments to be alike either
in money or commodity," and concerning the number of men in
garrison, that "the numbers shall be certain and necessary, and
employed only to the service of both the Companies." [2 pages.
East Indies, Vol. II., No. 47.] |
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209. "State of the business of Bantam." By the convention
between the two Companies it is ordered that the trade of Bantam
must be regulated and redressed, and that to this effect the Council
of Defence should first try "all sweet ways" to persuade the Pengran, that failing, they should be authorised to employ such other
means as they should think fit. "Sweet ways" failing three times,
the Council of Defence ordered that the town should be cannonaded
by the ships of both Companies. Those of the Low Countries have
satisfied their part, and because the English alleged they were unprovided with ships and men, they furnished up the part of the
English. Now the Dutch demand reimbursement for half the
charge, pleading the 10th, 18th, 19th, and 20th articles of the
treaty, but offer nevertheless to pretend to nothing of the charge
if the English will abandon the hope of that trade wholly to them.
The English Company maintain that the words underlined show
that it was in the power of the Council of Defence to appoint the
charge more to one than the other, and that consequently the
English should be discharged from any further charge. Against
this the Dutch urge that according to the treaty the two Companies
should bear the charges and enjoy the profits equally. [One page.
French; also abstract in English. East Indies, Vol. II., Nos. 48, 49.] |
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210. Report of the conferences between the States Ambassadors
and the Lords Commissioners concerning the East Indies. In
reference to the English bearing half the charge where they have
half the profit, upon which the States Ambassadors insist and
fortify by the 10th, 18th, 19th, and 20th articles of the treaty, and
on being desired to name some particular charge, with much unwillingness made instance of the siege of Bantam, where the four
expeditions were not performed at equal charge. It was answered
that their Lordships had received satisfaction at Hampton Court
in the expeditions of the 28th April, 22nd May, and 25th December
1620; but for that of 8th November 1621, if the merchants had
failed of what the Council of Defence had agreed upon, it was
thought fit the English should make it good. Arguments on the
persistence of the Ambassadors that the Council of Defence had no
power to determine the charge, the proportions being ordered in
the treaty. Reply of the Lords Commissioners: that the Pengran
hath refused to treat with the Dutch, but offereth trade to the
English; that it is not reasonable that they who have no aim but
trade should bear the charges of another's conquest and sovereignty,
or either be entrapped in offensive wars or have unknown accounts
made upon them. For these and other reasons their Lordships
thought not fit to yield to that general proposition of equal charge,
but ever concluded with their former offer that the English should
bear that part of the charge which was proportioned upon them by
the Council of Defence, according to the treaty and the explanation
thereof. In the margin of one copy Sec. Calvert has written: "By
which it appeareth that the business of Bantam is governed by a
particular reglement, for that affair only, and not alone by the treaty."
[Five pages. East Indies, Vol. II., Nos. 50, 51. Two copies.] |
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211. [The States Ambassadors'] minutes of debates with the States
Ambassadors and the Lords of the Privy Council about the business
of the East Indies. Recapitulate what has taken place at several
meetings, particularly on the 16th and 18th November (see ante,
No. 178), when the Lords of the Privy Council desired that the
two points of the number of ships of defence and building forts in
the Moluccas, Amboyna, and Banda should be agreed on. To which
the States Ambassadors replied: That the desire of the English
merchants on the first point was directly contrary to the treaty,
which his Majesty declared should remain in its entirety; that the
number [of ships] is necessary to secure trade, and that if the States
did not see the evident danger of reducing the number, they would
be as inclined as the English to get rid of the onerous expense. As
to the other of forts: That neither the English nor the Dutch had
yet reconnoitred the Indies, nor given any advice what forts, where,
and how many would be hereafter necessary, which ought first to
be done according to the 24th article of the treaty. [Two pages.
French. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 52.] |
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212. "The points necessary to be considered of in the reglement
of trade for the future." Concerning the 20 ships of defence and
their employment mentioned in the 10th article; the Dutch refuse
to lessen the number. Forts in the Moluccas, Banda, and Amboyna;
the three years mentioned in the 24th being already expired, the
Dutch "seem to deny us liberty to erect forts." Pooloroon; the
Dutch agree to restore it; also to demolish the fort at Lantar, and
that island to be possessed equally by both Companies. The King
has declared that the Dutch are to have two thirds of the trade, the
English one third. The place of residence for the English Council
of Defence; agreed that some new place shall be chosen; and the
punishment of the people of each Company, also agreed upon.
[Two pages. Endorsed, "1622." Two copies. East Indies, Vol. II.,
Nos. 53, 54.] |
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213. Reglement between the English and Dutch East India Companies. In eight articles, corrected and with marginal notes by
Sec Calvert. 1. The English Council of Defence to elect an indifferent place for residence.—"Agreed." 2. Touching the ships of
defence struck out as "sufficiently provided for by the treaty, unless
they will explain it as we desire." 3. Equal charge for forts; "provided for in the 8, 12, and 15 art of the explanation." 4. As to
criminals, slaves, or refugees.—"Agreed" so far forth as it is not
prejudicial to the 28th article. 5. Each nation to have the punishment of its own criminals.—Struck out. 6. The English Company
not to bear the expences of the colleges, schools, or table of the
Dutch Governors, or the presents they make.—"Agreed." 7. Neither
letters of marque to be granted nor seizure of ships or goods made
on either side, "a new article and needless." 8. Liberty to both
Companies to build forts in two (altered to three) years, according to
24 article. "It is already at liberty and needs no article."—
Agreed. "This article was underwritten Agreed [in my Lord
Treasurer's chamber struck out] by the desire of the English
merchants, who likewise before the Lords Commissioners would
have yielded to the term of three years. But the question being
again renewed the 30th of this present [? Dec.] it was otherwise
answered, and by consent of all parties referred to the 24th article
of the treaty. The general reservation is that if all the articles were
not settled, it should be understood nothing was."—Agreed. [Two
pages. French. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 55.] |
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214. Memorial of the States Ambassadors to the King. Having
considered the writing which [Sir Ed.] Conway brought them this
morning to be by them accepted and signed, they desire with all
their hearts to put a final conclusion to this accord to his Majesty's
satisfaction; but complain that by this writing the payments for
the pepper and ryals are to be made in a short time in English
money in London, instead of in one month after the Ambassadors
return to Amsterdam. Pray that what has been already agreed
upon may be confirmed, nothing being in dispute but security for
the fulfilling of what has been or shall be concluded and signed, for
which they are ready to pledge the public faith of their State.
Request sufficient time to make their report, by reason the frost
may still exclude them some weeks from their country. Nevertheless, as a proof to his Majesty of their integrity, candour, and
sincere intentions, and seeing how the English Company distrust
their promises, said Ambassadors are willing that one or two of the
deputies of the Dutch Company shall remain here as proposed until
the treaty, and the payment depending thereon, be satisfied. Pray
his Majesty to proceed to a decision of the Black Lion, to cause the
convention as agreed between the two Companies to be signed, and
to give said Ambassadors leave to finish this negociation, since by
these means they will have fully satisfied all that could be expected
from them. [French. Two copies; one endorsed by Sec. Calvert,
"Paper from the States Ambassadors." Two pages. East Indies,
Vol. II., Nos. 56, 57.] |
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215. Proposals of the States Ambassadors concerning the Black
Lion. That if it be not possible to escape from the differences of the
[Black] Lion by a final accord, the King will agree to refer the
decision to the Parliament of Paris, where it may be promptly given
at the instance of the two Companies, caution to be given on either
side de judicatum solvi. Those of the Low Countries contend that
38,000l. is due. That if his Majesty does not approve of this
reference to the Parliament, that said Ambassadors may be allowed
to return and report to their sovereigns the state of this difference.
In either case, those of the Low Countries will be content and ready
to satisfy all the other articles that have been regulated and agreed
on by the mediation of his Majesty and the Lords of the Privy
Council, in order to show their great inclination to the accord.
[One page. French. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 58.] |
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216. "Discourse" of Sir Henry Marten, Judge of the Admiralty,
concerning the Black Lion, and goods in her, which were burnt
casually after having been taken by the English. Whether a ship
taken by either East India Company from the other, though it had
come to their hands and possession, shall be subject to restitution if
the same hath perished when in the hands, custody, possession, or
service of the same Company. "I say nothing ought to be paid by
the English." With the opinion of Sir William Byrde, Dean of the
Arches, that "the words of the treaty [1619], and the explanation
thereof, and the fact being as they are therein mentioned, the conclusions thereof "are well warranted by law to my best understanding." [Nine pages. East Indies, Vol. II., No. 59.] |
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217. Answer of the East India Company to the reply of the
Dutch concerning the Black Lion, addressed to "our very good
Lords" [of the Privy Council]. Complain much of the confused
manner of the handling of the controversies by the Dutch, the
mingling of things of different considerations, and "casting in a heap
of impertinencies and petitiones principii;" after which follow long
arguments in reference to the meaning of that part of the treaty
which relates to the restoration of the Black Lion and her goods,
which arguments are freely interspersed with quotations from
eminent legal authorities in support of same. [Eight pages. East
Indies, Vol. II., No. 60.] |
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218. Memorial of the States Ambassadors to the King. Concerning
that which [Sir Ed.] Conway has on the King's part proposed, that
the States Ambassadors should give caution in this city or pay a
part of the debt in money down, with caution for the remainder, or
that all or the greater part of them should stay in this city until
payment be made or other satisfaction given. The Ambassadors
declare that the deputies who accompany them have neither power
to give caution nor to make any payment without first reporting to
their principals. Therefore said Ambassadors beseech his Majesty
to proceed to a decision about the Black Lion, and to rest satisfied
that in signing the accord they engage the public faith of their
State, which has never given cause of doubt to State or person, and
they pray his Majesty to grant them an audience and permission to
report to their sovereigns what they have concluded after a negociation of 14 months. [One page and a quarter. French. East
Indies, Vol. II., No. 61.] |
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219. Account of negociations between the States Ambassadors
and Lords Commissioners. That the Ambassadors have promised to
give caution in the city of London for restitution of the sum
detained for freight, assurance, and just charges, the money to be
paid so soon as the English shall have brought the pepper belonging to those of the Low Countries into Holland. Also to give
assurance for the 97,000 and odd ryals to be paid in the Indies, and,
lastly, to give assurance within 18 months to pay the price the
English merchandizes were sold for. Question of payment in ready
money. The Ambassadors and Dutch merchants ready to sign to
bind the public faith. Present article for payment of the money at
a certain time. Refuse, in case they fail to underwrite, that their
ships and goods should be seized on ("because it were shameful for
them to presuppose such a necessity"), but acknowledge that power
and justice would then be in the King's hand to take entire satisfaction on their whole estate. [Three pages. East Indies, Vol. II.,
No. 62.] |
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220. Draft of the "article" referred to in the previous paper, in
which the Dutch Company undertake to pay the English East India
Company the sum of [left blank], in current money of England, the
10th day of March next ensuing, in the East India House, commonly
called Crosby, in Bishopsgate Street, in the city of London, and in
default the Dutch Commissioners bind themselves and their principals, with their ships and goods, to pay the sum of 150,000l. to the
English Company. [One page and a quarter. French. East
Indies, Vol. II., No. 63.] |
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221. "An article touching the realls of eight." The Netherlands
Company is indebted to that of England in the sum of 97,320 ryals
of eight found in the ships Star, Bear, and Dragon at the time of
their capture, which they promise to restore in specie to the English
Company in London within one month after demand made by the
English deputies at Amsterdam. [Three quarters of a page. French.
East Indies, Vol. II., No. 64.] |
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222. "Agreement between the States Ambassadors and the East
India Company in England." That after long debate the King's
Commissioners and the States Ambassadors have finally agreed upon
and settled all differences between the two companies, by which
decision the sum of (sic, blank) becomes payable within three months
to the English Company according to the articles agreed on, part at
the hotel commonly called Crosby House, in the city of London, and
part at Amsterdam, and moreover that out of that part to be paid in
London the sum of 20,000l. sterling be paid in advance. [Two
pages. French. Endorsed as above. East Indies, Vol. II., Nos. 65,
66. Two copies.] |
